Gay Bishop Starts Alcohol Rehab Program

Here's an interesting news brief; the Episcopal Church's first openly gay bishop, Gene Robinson, has started treatment for alcoholism.  I've read that the homosexual lifestyle leaves one chronically unhappy, hence there are much higher rates of alcoholism, drug use and suicide than the general population.  This is just another example of it, making news because of who he is.  Any comments?

Comments

[Pius V]

At the risk of being labeled a hater, etc., (or a Sigmund Fraud) I am convinced that the majority of homosexuals are basically unhappy, not because of discrimination or ostracism, but because in the back of their minds they know they are dysfunctional. I predict that the more "accepted" homosexuals become in society, the more they will despair because they will realize that acceptance is not the key to hitherto elusive happiness. All the push for gay marriage is just part of an effort to legislate the idea of homosexuality as normal, but the most such legislation (whether real legislation or the judicial kind) can do is promote official, state-sanctioned "acceptance," which is not the same as converting something inherently abnormal to something normal. Word games and mind games a doublethink cannot alter reality. The realization will hit that if acceptance won't make homosexuals happy, nothing short of really being normal will, because only truly being normal can make one feel normal. No amount of deception or self deception can give homosexuals that. I firmly believe that it is an underlying despair rooted in such an awareness (conscious or not) that sends homosexuals on such self-destructive paths. Such self-destructiveness will not be alleviated by the false tonic of state recognition of gay relationships. Only honesty with oneself about one's imperfections and firm resolve to overcome them (or at least not to indulge them) can do that.

[Weeze]

Pius V,

I hope you're right. I can't envision any other cure for our cultures blindness to this issue.

[Weeze]

Sorry. That should be "culture's."

[Weeze]

Sorry. That should be "culture's."

[Kelly]

I was told by a prominent surgeon that after alcohol, their drugs of choice are those that repress the memory or cause blackouts--basically "date rape" drugs. Many sexually active gay men will take them so they don't have to remember anything about their participating in homogenital acts. Sex has become an addiction for them. It figures that Robinson ("My relationship with my lover is sacramental.") who had a wife and several children) has founded this rehab center. What a hypocrite!

[Rev. Mike]

I agree with the first post. Being legitimized by the state does not calm the soul that knows his/her actions are immoral.

[WMP]

I have a sister who has been Lesbian since her early 20s. Now in her late 50s she questions her rationale for going in that direction. She is also in a very deep depression, and under medical treatment. I am very worried because it fits a pattern like the Bishop, a life that falls apart.

[Tony]

I think the next thing he should get treated for is the gay problem, and the thing after that should be his heterodoxy problem.

[Brian]

Your reasoning is suspect. Is it the homosexual "lifestyle" that makes one unhappy or is it the treatment of homosexuals that makes them unhappy. Catholic priests also have a high rate of alcoholism, especially diocesan priests. Is this because of their "lifestyle"?

I would be careful with "post hoc ergo propter hoc" fallacies.

[Joanie]

Brian,

Homosexuals are unhappy because they are believing a lie. They are unhappy because the submission to this lie is degrading. They are unhappy because this self degradation leads to abusive relationships. They are unhappy because all of this is very hurtful to themselves.

[Spirit of Vatican II]

Alcoholicism is a common illness among priests generally.

I think your comments again show that the destructive hatred of the ECUSA is fueled largely by homophobia.

Fr Kimel's Pontifications site, for example -- notable for emotional attacks on his own former church that are recklessly destructive -- is flooded with homophobic ranting from his fans. I learned from a posting on this site that the two reasons he gave for leaving the ECUSA for the RCC in 1995 are based on inability to accept gays. This, rather than the defence of the Nicene Creed (as in the orthodox but off-putting "Baltimore Declaration" of Kimel et al. in 1991) is what has set Anglicans at one another's throats.

Let us recall that the chief architect of schism in Anglicanism is Archbishop Akinola of Nigeria. For an instance of the unchristian attitudes of this sinister figure, see http://topmostapple.blogspot.com/2006/01/company-we-keep.html.

[Brian]

Joanie, there are so many problems with your argument that I don't know where to begin. You say that "homosexuals" are doing this or that. Do you mean *all* homosexuals? Have you met all homosexuals? Or do you mean "out" homosexuals? Many celibate priests, for instance, have a homosexual orientation. Did you mean them too? Did you also mean the chaste homosexuals whom the Catechism specifically tells you to treat with kindness? They are not engaing in sex at all. Are they living a lie?

Secondly, you say that they are "living a lie." What does that mean? People who live a lie don't understand what is true. Are you denying that homosexuals know that they have this orientation? Or do you mean that this orientation is a lie? Because, as I said, the Catechism does not even say that (Remember, this is the Catechism that Benedict and Archbishop Levada worked on together.) Also, do you worry about all the *heterosexual* people who are having sex before marriage? Last time I looked heterosexual pre-marital sex was specifically outlawed throughout the Bible and held to be clearly wrong by the Church. Sex can only be complete in a marriage between two people who love each other and who are open to children. Do these fornicators "live a lie" too? And if so, how often have you bothered to talk to people whom you know are having out-of-wedlock sex? Do you tell them they are living a lie? Did *you* live a lie?

Third, where is your empirical data that homosexuals are unhappy because they are having sex? Lookig at it logically, if the chaste homosexuals are just as unhappy and they are NOT submitting to this lie, then what happens to your argument? And conversely, if open homosexuals are more happy than chaste, closeted homosexuals, then your argument fails again. While I may concede to you that self-degradation leads to abusive relationships, if *both* homosexuals in a relationship are living a lie and submitting to this lie, then who is the abuser? Or is each one the abused, which of course makes no sense.

Lastly, I wonder if homosexuality is more hurtful to them than people reminding them all the time about how they are living a lie. Remember that Jesus specifically ate and made friends with those whom others despised, such as the tax collectors and lepers. Further, he even used an example of someone hated among Jews, the Samaritans, to show that goodness was expected of all people and can be found in all people.

I have no idea if you mean bad or good will to homosexuals. I would suggest, however, that you remember that God loves them as much as anyone else and that we are all sinners. And if you just cannot help yourself from chastising homosexuals, make sure you provide enough time for all the fornicators who are also living a lie.

[joanie]

Brian,

I also cannot begin to answer all of your comments- I could but I just dont have the time at this exact moment. But I will address your first paragraph and some other comments. You write that I said all homosexuals do this or that and that all homosexuals are living a lie, and does my arguement also include chaste homosexuals.

I wrote not living a lie but believing a lie, and yes that is hurtful even if one does not act upon it.

Yes, I do counsel young people to practise chastity because sex outside of marriage is also degrading to the individual and is disrespectful to the dignity of the person.

Abuse in a homosexual relationship is most damaging to the one acting most contrary to his masculinity. And the abuser should be in jail, because the damage he is inflicting is a crime.

[A Simple Sinner]

It is funny to see the Anglican Communion getting so fractured over the issue of ordaining gays. Over the years, divorce (The first cause!) abortion, ordination of woman, intercommunion with churches not having “apostolic succession” tacit acceptance of a “decide your own morality” and now this is the straw the broke the camel’s back of an otherwise big happy family? They could ignore all else, but Gene Robinson, eh?

Sometimes when I read more orthodox and traditional Catholic's opinions, articles, net blogs I notice a pattern of some wildly vitriolic and bizarre sentiments on gay people. It is bothersome.

For years I lived as an "out" gay "enjoying" all the lifestyle had to offer - clubs, a lot of opportunities for one night stands, and a host of other behaviors I won't enumerate here, but were incompatible with the Catholic faith I learned in grade school.

Now after a few years of some awful relationships, a DUI, a few major STD scares (all of them, praise God, negative) and some major soul searching, I took baby steps into the Catholic Church. TINY baby steps - it started out casually looking at websites and reading books months before I darkened the doorway of a parish.

Well now I am the bachelor sitting in the back row, trying not to butcher the hymn to loudly. I keep to myself aside from a very little small talk "Good morning" "Beautiful Day isn't it!" "Enjoyed your sermon today father."

Invariably one of two or three pious couples in the parish have approached me asking if I was interested in the Catholic singles meeting, or if I am discerning the priesthood. NO, sorry, I am not interested in trying to find a date Friday and I am not exactly a prime vocational candidate.

At this time I am not really interested in pursuing re-orientation therapy. I have no doubt that for some persons this may in fact be effective, but the time, the cost, finding a therapist… I am really content to be single and chaste. (Though some ultra-conservatives have expressed the opinion that this is not enough – the mere possibility of having that behavior as an attractive temptation, they say, is so gravely and morally disordered …)

Are the people I called friends whom I used to hang out with and “party” still around? No. Well, so where does that leave me? Do I feel sorry for myself? Nope. Do I sometimes feel lonely? Well, yes.

I lucked out in a small way. I do enjoy the companionship of a woman who shares my house with me. She married outside the church and is now divorced from an abusive drug addict. She has her space, I have mine, she cooks some nights, and I do others. It is nice to have a friend and my two dogs to come home to. It is not marriage, but it is domestic companionship with a Catholic friend. I sometimes think it is like a VERY small taste of what living in community might be like.)

(I often think to myself that if people at the more traditional parish really knew me how many would make me feel welcome? I am celibate but a lot of the louder types will tell you that to even have that attraction makes me wildly disordered. Heck, they would be the same ones that disapprove of me chastely sharing a home with a woman though too!)

Well my rambling point is two-fold:

1) Not everyone with homosexual tendencies or histories is outside of the desire to live a life of grace. Someone once described the church as a hospital for sinners, not a hotel for saints. While not condoning, encouraging or affirming active same-sex relations and behaviors, Catholics need to let everyone know that if they want to be close to Jesus, the Catholic church is the place to come find healing.

2) I could be wildly naïve and misinformed, but HONESTLY, there is no massive underground of gay conspirators looking to push a gay agenda on the Catholic Church and heterosexual youth. I hear and read some people saying, “They are trying to get our children.” Well, no, guess what? We already ARE your children. To mix metaphors, some modern McCarthy’s are seeing gays on every grassy knoll, but isn’t this scapegoating a bit?

More on the second point… Gay people are basically “enjoying” the sexual freedom whose libertine lifestyle was pioneered by people of heterosexual inclination. Before anyone was chanting “We’re here, we’re queer, get used to it” Hugh Hefner was publishing respectable porn, setting up Playboy clubs and had a prime-time television show! In any given city you will find 3 or 4 times more (straight) strip clubs and singles bars. “Adult book stores” can be found all over the country – even in rural areas – and they are mostly catering to folks interested in heterosexual pornography.

An old friend of mine was fond of citing a study that claimed “more people watch porn than sports.” Well who is watching all that pornography? The 1-5% of the population that has some degree of same sex attraction??? Are all of the people breaking marriage vows to have affairs having same sex affairs?

The “assault on marriage” didn’t begin with gay people wanting to have same-sex unions. It began in the 1930s when the Anglican Communion approved birth control. It began in the 50s in Scandinavia when surgical abortion on demand became legal. It began when the laws in the US made a divorce easier than a bankruptcy. It began when Roman Catholic catechesis and faith grew so weak that even most couples married in a Catholic church today likely have no strong foundations for what they are committing to! (Having NFP pamphlets in the lit-rack of the basement your local Marriage Encounter meets in hardly counts!)

I hope it is clear that this is no defense of homosexuality or same sex marriage. Far from it. But it might not be a bad idea to stop blaming a small minority of the population for problems that are much larger.

Rather than targeting a particular sin or lifestyle that does not work, maybe it is time to do something more productive but LESS popular: Promote, discuss, defend and teach the ideals of Catholic marriage and to STOP being embarrassed by Humanae Vitae – sweeping it under the rug all the time, explain it away or just ignoring it at the risk of being unpopular.

We have a great faith and a way to holiness given to us by God.

[Just a dude]

Again, this is not rocket science. Alcoholism is not synonymous with homosexuality, but the ratio of gay alcoholics certainly is statistically out of sync with the majority of other demographics. I believe, it is the largest group of addiction, and suicide (attempts at least). There are a variety of reasons for this. Some of it has to do with not having a family (inner family cell) that frequently helps to keep a boozer in check. Secondly, the bar is the de facto place to meet other homosexual men, much more so per capita, than heterosexual couples. Alcoholism may have developed also to quell the guilty conscience, but I too am a recovered alcoholic, straight as can be. Some of us just like booze, period. Alcoholism does not discriminate, and knows no boundaries, and yes, there are many a straight priest also, whom suffer from alcoholism, and some of whom have recovered. I personally know a couple of them. I would not spend too much time waxing poetic on why this gay Anglican Bishop is an alcoholic. I would spend a little more time on your own inventory, and worry less about his. Yep, I still do believe though, his acceptance within the Anglican communion is against the gospel, and another step into the abyss for their church.

P.S. Note to 'A simple sinner,' - I agree with you. If you are chaste, and recognize a sin as a sin, and do not promote or rationalize it, kudos to you for remaining in a state of grace (presuming you are in other areas as well). I am an orthodox, conservative Catholic, and you would be welcome to eat at my table anytime. Even if you were not yet "holy and upright" but acknowledging the sin, and trying to the best of your ability with the grace of God, to walk upright.

You are correct for the most part on the destruction of the family unit through contraception, and divorce, and mostly in my opinion as well, weak catechesis (stemming from weak, liberal bishops and priests.) However, homosexuality is what is behind the majority of the predatorial priests, not pedophelia. And yes, I do think you are a bit naive regarding the systematic protection of the gays within the clergy. The facts from the John Jay study are in, and have been reviewed. The overwhelming majority of those molested were gulliable, post-pubescent boys.

[A Simple Sinner]

"I would not spend too much time waxing poetic on why this gay Anglican Bishop is an alcoholic. I would spend a little more time on your own inventory, and worry less about his. Yep, I still do believe though, his acceptance within the Anglican communion is against the gospel, and another step into the abyss for their church. "

I hate to sound uncharitable in the least, but, in a sense, it seems a total moot point to be looking at the Anglican Communion in the west to begin with. It is almost indulgent! What do I mean by that?

Well it is fairly obvious now, and has been for YEARS (Centuries?) that the Anglican community was entirely too-far gone in issues of faith, discipline, dogma, doctrine and the like to EVER regain a working communion with the Holy See in the Catholic Communion. Leo XIII's Apostolic Curae pretty much laid to rest the idea that Anglican Orders were valid ending any notion that they share in our priesthood. (The issue of ordinations and consecrations by Old Catholic and Polish National Catholic bishops notwithstanding...)

Much as some "Anglo-Catholics" and "Continuing Anglicans" dream about communion with Eastern Orthodoxy or Rome, such wholesale change would have to occur to make it most unlikely. (Personally I have always doubted the commitment of Anglo-Catholics who form new bodies independent of Canterbury to union with Rome or Orthodoxy. At every ecclesial split in Anglicanism that has given rise to a new splinter group, on opportunity for individuals to join Rome or go Greek was present. Instead new churches get formed. While some Anglican-use parishes in the Roman Catholic Church exist, and some ministers are ordained to the priesthood, Father Leonard Graham sums it up best when he said the opportunity to become a Catholic priest was great but truth compelled him to convert with or without that option.

We are well beyond a point where Rome or the Eastern Orthodox could say "God Bless this Mess!" We have been for a long time. Priestly orders, women's ordinations, competing theologies, full communion with certain Lutheran bodies… It is indulgent, in a sense, to even bother monitoring what they do any longer. Not to be vitriolic, or triumphal, but their own concept of “church” is too greatly different from any Catholic concept to even worry about what they do as an ecclesial community. The challenge now, is to work in all charity to garner souls for the Catholic Church. Corporate reunion is impossible. Individual conversion is key.

God willing, they still may have many more Cardinal Newmans to produce. Likely it is more spiritual productive to pray for that, than to waste much time watching them with the inappropriate toe-curling titillation of watching a train wreck

"However, homosexuality is what is behind the majority of the predatorial priests, not pedophelia. And yes, I do think you are a bit naive regarding the systematic protection of the gays within the clergy."

Now this is something I will concede as possible. But consider this: protection of certain offending priests – even in cases where the protectors shared in those predilections – may not ALWAYS indicate an intentional effort to subvert the institution so much as friends protecting friends. What do I mean by this? Far from always being part of a “gay agenda” or conspiracy to subvert church teachings, SOME instances were bishops or priests who would try to WRONGLY cover up any misdeed by brother priests – mistresses, alcoholism, drug abuse, etc.

Some of the systematic protection – I hope with all my heart – was (once again) WRONGLY done not to promote further abuse, but with the inappropriate and naïve hope that the fellows would “go forth and sin no more.” I really and truly hope the members of the hierarchy that covered up these allegations and moved priests to new parishes never did it with the sentiment that they were promoting or encouraging these men to do this MORE. I hope it was never part of some conspiracy to intentionally enable them to molest (rape) the most boys possible. I think we now understand, more than ever, that this quick private admonition and silent shuffle would never work.

These priests were sexual predators - rapists. The rapes were homosexual in nature, but they were, first and foremost, rapes. These men were and are gravely sick to prey on boys.

It would be sad enough – though still inexcusable – if these guys were simply shedding their Roman collars and hitting gay bars in another town the way some priests have adult mistresses. In some small sense, even though that behavior is ALSO incompatible with Catholic life, adult seeking other adults for consensual behaviors is different in the sense that it constitutes one sin. Priests who molested children compounded their sins.

In addition to abuse breaking the binding vow of chastity (forbidden to them as unmarried and celibate) with men (forbidden to them as a disordered misuse of the genitive power and role God give men/women to co-operate in the creation of souls) these men ALSO committed additional sins of RAPE – dragging the innocent into their sin AND the implicit additional sin of false teaching. To whom much has been given, much will be expected. Given the grave and awesome responsibility priests have as teachers of the faith such sins all the more grave. Their priestly state sends an implicit message by deed and example to the formative youth that this is behavior appropriate to a Catholic!

I don’t mean to be indelicate or cause scandal in telling this about my own life, but to give perspective while these men prey on boys; many who are tempted to sex with other men are NOT. Many – like myself during my non-celibate years away from the Holy Mother Church – sought relations with adult men who willingly and consensually put themselves forward as being interested and ready to participate in sex with other adult men. When I had given myself to this lifestyle I sought adult men who possessed at least an outward appearance of a masculinity I did not believe I myself possessed. For a fleeting moment, encounters with guys of this nature made me feel like I was masculine. The men I looked for were always guys my age or older. While it was still wrong, it was always consensual. We may have been victims of the great lie that it would make us happy, but when I engaged in this behavior, I did NOT rape people.

The poor teenage boys some of these monsters victimized – I never looked twice at them and was always repulsed at the notion of anyone doing so. Once again, not to give scandal, I just mention this part of my own sad history to illustrate that not all with temptations and inclinations to same-sex activity are predatory. To be clear, I still think I was wrong, I am not trying to justify my own sins, or imply (as some wrongly do) that there is an “OK way” of being gay but there are situations where disordered attractions are compounded by additional sins.

I know that some orders and seminaries DO have a pervasive gay culture. But as someone who struggles to maintain the grace God offers freely in my own life – someone who has “been there done that” and is trying to pick up the pieces and come Home – I hate to see all Catholics who struggle with this painted as being part of any agenda JUST BECAUSE they face a temptation to this sin.

I think some same-sex attracted men DO turn to priesthood, but NOT in an effort to be in a position to victimize anyone.

At one point in my youth I really was attracted to the priesthood. As my temptation to disordered sexuality “grew” I even once wondered if priestly life might not be a good option because it would afford so much grace and make greater use of a life that, given my attractions, would have to be celibate if it was to be Catholic. I no longer even entertain the idea given the scandal it could cause – people out there know my past. BUT I can see how many young men, desiring to practice the Catholic faith and celibacy pursued a vocation. Sadly too very many of them fell to the temptations. Others, I am sure, have been able to use the priestly life as a font of grace and sanctity.

So who ARE these celibate lay Catholics and how did some of them start participating on blogs and such?

One day at work when I was working in an environment where I was out and the workplace atmosphere was rather casual, someone asked me “So what is up with this gay thing, you just decided to skip girls and go for dudes? What is up with that?” Well with all the scathing sarcasm I could muster I looked him dead in the eyes and said “Yup. That’s right David. I was totally attracted to women and things were going swimmingly until one day during puberty I said to myself ‘Self! You know what would be great? If you made yourself different, had doubts about your own masculinity, made yourself the target of ridicule and started to enjoy a life full of club hopping, one night stands and bad boyfriends! Maybe, if you are lucky you can own a home one day in a gay neighborhood that is all fabulous and really excel at interior design and showing dogs!’”

What can I say? Like a lot of moderns, at one point my libertine ways and the truth of your own sadness – as revealed in my indelicate sarcasm – begins to hit you. I wasn’t happy, I knew it, and I knew things could get worse following the same failing formula OR (to paraphrase Sherlock H.) having exhausted all other possibilities, whatever is left, however improbable, is the only thing still possible.

ME? Go back to Catholic Church? Well, yea.

Early on in my return to Mass attendance I started chatting with a nice guy about my age – grad student I think. He came to introduce himself and let me know about the Catholic singles group they had at the parish. He was proud (and rightly so!) that this particular parish was more traditional and very loyal to Rome. Then made some comment in passing about “this place being different from the [nearby campus parish] run by the fags.” Ouch. So PLEASE be careful what you say. You never know what simple sinner is just trying to find some grace and serve God is around.

I have probably written way too much (can you tell I can’t sleep tonight?!?) but these are some thoughts that go through my head sometimes. As I mentioned before, I am the bachelor that is sitting in the back at Mass. I left behind a level of false comfort in my “former life” as I come to grips with the fact that, as a man, I am MORE (much more!) than sexuality or an inclination. I am a soul that as an old Baltimore Catechism I found at a second hand bookstore reminds: “Who made you? God made me. Why did God make YOU? God made me to be know him love him and serve him in this life and be happy with him for all eternity in the next.”

[Just a dude]

- To a simple sinner: Quick-like, becuase I have to go. The fact that you recognize and have turned away from your main demon makes you no different than myself. I am an alky-womanizer, now married with kids, and chaste within my married covenant. This is not my 'normal' way, but I strive, with total help from God to maintain this way of life which Godh wants from me.

Be easy on the guy who said his church was not run by 'fags.' We have many churches that have been run into total heresy by the libertine gays, absolutely out of the closet at the pulpit. It has been very difficult for us in the pews in recent years. I live in Minneapolis, and our archdiocese is out of control, and our archbishop does nothing. It is embarrassing. Out or the closet priests, abortion and 'social justice' liberalism are turning the churches into total apostasy. The DaVinci code seminars are being held in what were once good churches, and are being promoted by gays who agree the church held down women, and that the church needs to be modernized etc. Different, but also much-like if we had priests preaching multiple children with multiple women and stealing from the treasury on a regular basis. This is not a problem en-masse like the gay problem in our country. It happens, sure, but is not quite the problem that the gay priests pose. The womanizing priest does not rape our young kids nearly as much as the gay priest does, again statistically speaking.
The guy who is proud can learn much from a faithful ex-outwardly gay layman. You also, can teach many others how to be chaste, and many can learn from your experience. Maybe you already have, but check out Dr. Jopseph Nicolosi and his organization "NARTH." He has many great books. Much like me abstaining from alcohol, I needed more than just abstinence, I needed AA.

[Joanie]

My comments that someone who had been tempted to believe they are homosexual is unhappy was stretched to the extreme into meaning that henceforth they would be unfit to sit at the table even if they were struggling with it and trying to overcome it. This is oversensitivity.

Hooray for anyone who has overcome the temptations of the evil one! All heaven exults in joy over the conversion of sinners. My conversion is also wrenching but all sin and temptation most be fought with truthfulness.

[jpe]

Well, I hear that gay people eat AIDS-infected babies. That's why AIDS is destroying queers.

[G Golem]

Joanie,
The problem isn't that gays are too depressed; the problem is that Catholics aren't depressed enough.

When a 13-year-old gay boy in a Catholic school consults the Catholic Encyclopedia to find out how his church views his situation, he finds a quote from St. John Chrysostom saying that the boy is "worse than a murderer" and would be better off dead.
When this message of hatred is reinforced by the laity and the magisterium, it is understandable that the thought of suicide is his constant companion for years even though he is a virgin.

As for your sin honestly, if you counsel young people in support of this evil, you, like Chrysostom, are subborning suicide. Christ was particularly harsh in is judgement of those who corrupt and harm the young. He said it would be better if they were drowned.

[Joanie]

When one speaks the truth there is no guilt-even by association. To say, by inference, that when one speaks the truth of the evil of sin and the consequant, inevitable judgement of God- in a spirit of charity; is concomittant to inciting suicide is a stifling of the spirit.

If one, by a result and consequance of one's sinful ACTIONS one is tempted by the evil one to- as a result, hate oneself on account of the resulting, inevitable guilt to kill oneself, the guilt is the result of sin. Mortal sin by its very nature leads to death, NOT on the bearer of truth.

Because sin blinds those burdened by it, I am not suprised that fantastic, rationalizations are made to expiate the truly guilty.

[Joanie]

The Roman Catholic Church is fast becoming a trophy of the homosexual movement. I have heard bishops wax long on the benefits and life giving attributes of homosexual unions. Soon, the homosexuals who love their sin will turn their fury to the brave souls who refuse to cower under an illusion of false charity. The writing is one the wall. To quench their guilty consciouses, they will atttempt to silence all those who seek to convert souls, and turn the gospel on its head with their twisted interpretations. But they will not find God to be as tolerant as they have created society to be as a result of costly lawsuits. God's law is eternal.

"To respect biology is to respect God himself" Pope Benedict XVI, from The Ratzinger Report, Reflections on Unnatural Liberation.

[G Golem]

In the Catholic Encyclopedia, I just read a rationalization for God's alleged role in Abraham's attempted murder his son of Isaac. The basis of this rationalization is that God could have taken Isaac's right to life away so that killing him wouldn't be murder.

Mainstream Muslim thought says that it would be a sin for Abraham's son to even want to live.

Mainstream Jewish thought says that the angel who commanded Abraham to slay his son might not have been sent by God.

The most humane interpretation of the three belongs to those who authored the book. With each succeeding heresy from Catholicism to Islam, the interpretation becomes more violent and bloodthirsty.

Perhaps, it isn't the gay children of Catholics who need saving. It's all their children.

[Rockie]

HETEROSEXUAL QUESTIONNAIRE

1. What do you think caused your heterosexuality?
2. When and how did you first decide that you were a heterosexual?
3. Were you pressured by friends or family to make this decision?
4. Is it possible that your heterosexuality is just a phase you may grow out of?
5. Is it possible that your heterosexuality stems from a neurotic fear of members of your own sex?
6. Isn't it possible that all you need is a good gay lover, to realize you are not truly straight?
7. To whom have you disclosed your heterosexuality? How did they react?
8. Since 98 percent of child molesters are heterosexuals, do you consider it safe for people to expose their children to heterosexual teachers and scout leaders?
9. Heterosexuals are noted for assigning themselves and each other to narrowly restricted, stereotyped sex roles. Why do you and others like you cling to such an unhealthy form of role-playing?
10. Why do heterosexuals place so much emphasis on sex?
11. There seem to be very few truly happy heterosexuals. Techniques have been developed that you might be able to use to change your sexual orientation. Have you considered aversion therapy as a way to cure your heterosexuality?
12. Why are heterosexuals so promiscuous?
13. If heterosexuality is normal, why are a disproportionate number of mental patients heterosexual?
14. Why do you make a point of attributing heterosexuality to famous people? Is it to justify your own heterosexuality?
15. If you've never slept with a person of the same sex, how do you know you wouldn't prefer that?
16. Why do you insist on being so obvious and making a public spectacle of your heterosexuality? Can't you just be what you are and keep quiet about it?

Think about your choices! Your happiness depends on them.

[A Redeemed Sinner]

If you are serious, visit www.narth.org