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Friday, April 27, 2007

Comments

Qualis Rex

If by "ministry", this means they are spreading the gospel and affirming God's love and plan to all of His creation and hopefully inspiring the homosexuals to turn away from sin and follow Christ, then I guess I don't see what is in any way wrong here.

I used to work in a ministry to prostitutes one summer in Italy (most of them were Eastern European and African). We provided them with meals, safe beds, shared prayerrs with them and if they wished, gave them options, support and legal aid on how to get out of this lifestyle (most were "trapped" since they were in Europe ilegally to begin with, so didn't have any legal standing).

The point is we can minister to any group in need and does NOT mean we are supporting or condoning their lifestyle. We all need a savior.

Qualis Rex

P.S. Your question as to "Where is Archbishop Niederauer" is valid, since he has essentially been MIA since his arrival on many issues within his diocese. We have asked him on several occasions if he plans to offer a Tridentine liturgy at any place within his diocese for years now, and he has never responded to anyone.

Jeffersonranch

Bishop! don't make me laugh. Are there any

Luis

I would take it one step further and ask why the people in the San Francisco area have not spoken out against this like the Church of Boston did just before Cardinal Law was removed? Living on the east coast, we only know of these things from blogs like this one. If I lived in San Francisco I would be standing at the bishop's residence demanding answers. Where are the good people of the Frisco Bay?! ! ! !

Qualis Rex

Luis, I live in the Archdiocese of San Francisco (but not in San Francisco). The church carries little to no weight here whatsoever. The former Bishop Levada was involved in the sex cover up, and his predecessor was involved in an actual sex scandal. The far left liberals dominate and run San Francisco (of which the so-called "gay community" is a sub-set). To show any anti-gay sentiment in SF is politically and economically not a good idea. And once again, if this purpose of this mass and ministry is to turn homosexuals away from sin, then I ask, what is wrong with it?

James


"Being gay is not special," he said. "It's simply another gift from God who created us as rainbow people."

---

Just like bulimia is a gift from God...

James

Hilary White

I called the Archdiocesan media spokesman today, Maurice Healy, and he told me very adamantly that the service in question was not a Mass, was not sponsored by the archdiocese and that the archdiocese did not know about the BBC taping. Further, it seems that the Evening Standard, normally an excellent news magazine, mistook the BBC and added the part about it being a Mass. The BBC said clearly that it was a "prayer service" and did not use the term "Mass".

Of course, it raises the question, how much was the mistake deliberate? The man who organized the event, and presumably the BBC's presence, is a Jesuit who did his Doctorate in Ministry at Holy Redeemer parish, known far and wide as the gay parish of San Fran. The man who did the preaching, if we can call it that, was James Allison, a British "gay theologian" who has made his life's work the re-writing of Catholicism to make it gay-friendly.

That a Catholic parish holds a "service", presided over by a priest, at which there is "preaching", would more or less naturally lead one to believe that a Mass had occurred. Such a mistake as made by the Evening Standard is so natural that I expect this ambiguity was deliberate, but I do wonder why they didn't have Mass, if it was all public and there was a priest. I can't imagine what would have stopped them.

Odd that such an openly "gay" parish would stop short at actually celebrating the Mass. As far as I was able to find out, Fr. Donal Godfrey is a priest in good standing, there is no reason to imagine that he does not have faculties.

It's odd.

James


"And once again, if this purpose of this mass and ministry is to turn homosexuals away from sin, then I ask, what is wrong with it?"

---

Riiiiiiight. It'll be a group of generally unrepentant sodomites, intent on the getting the world (and the Church) to sanctify all sorts of degraded and deviant homosexual acts, and the leaders of the Mass will call them all to chastity and purity of body and soul...

They will then all be advised to repent of their sodomies, and go to Confession...

I mean, I'm sure that's what's going to happen...

James

Thomistic

Qualis Rex,

Did you read the article about what they are saying from the pulpit?

How can saying things like this be squared with Christian doctrine:

"Being gay is not special," he said. "It's simply another gift from God who created us as rainbow people."

The Church teaches that homosexuality is an intrinsically disordered orientation towards a serious and intrinsic moral evil. It is a tendency, more or less strong, depending on the individual, to be physically attracted in a sexual way to persons of the same gender. It is a tendency towards a moral evil, not a gift. It is a temptation; a conflict between desire and duty.

One never hears of other intrinsically disordered orientations such as alcoholism, anorexia nervosa, bulimia, or kleptomania, celebrated as gifts; they are rightly understood as harmful disorders. Pro-anorexia websites supporting the right to live an anorexic lifestyle are correctly viewed as profoundly dangerous, even in secular society.

However, homosexual activism has made such tremendous strides within the culture that any criticism of the homosexual lifestyle is vilified as hate speech. What a difference! Sadly, this politically correct mindset, under the mantle of buzzwords such as tolerance and diversity, has crept into Catholic circles, with the collusion of homosexually-oriented priests and religious (male and female) and has paved the way for preparing rank and file Catholics to tolerate the homosexual lifestyle as a sign of God’s diverse creation, and ultimately, a "gift".

A correct understanding of Catholic teaching shows that, as with any other aberrant drive or appetite, homosexuality can only be called a 'gift' in the sense that it is a cross to bear.

In living as the Church teaches, utilizing prayer and the sacraments, homosexually-oriented persons can overcome their homosexual temptations and merit abundant graces, and I am fine with a loving invitation to persons with homosexual tendencies along those lines, even at special Masses, which are especially appropriate in cities like San Francisco, but that isn't the message i sense is being sent at this parish.

The article makes it clear that:

such activities as transvestite bingo nights during which sex toys and pornographic DVDs were handed out as prizes

and

Weeks after the BBC finished recording the service last October, it emerged that a transvestite group calling themselves the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence regularly staged lewd and irreverent bingo nights on the church premises.

The San Francisco archdiocese-stopped the events when it was discovered that prizes of a sexual nature were being handed out by the group, who dress as nuns.

In the past members of the group have paraded naked through the city advertising a 'hunky Jesus' contest. Their motto is: 'Go and sin some more.'

I have a hard time believing these things were going on without the knowledge (and at least tolerance) of the priests in that parish, and priests who tolerate things like that should never "minister" to persons with homosexual tendencies.

Bottom line:

Any pronouncements of tolerance for the homosexual lifestyle or the gifts that flow from a homosexual orientation run contrary, not only to Church teaching, but also authentic charity. Homosexuality hurts people. It’s a serious disorder, not a gift. Telling people otherwise isn’t Christian and loving. It’s ignorant, cowardly, and irresponsible. Imagine embracing an alcoholic, drug addict, anorexic, or bulimic and telling them that you accept, respect, and support their lifestyle choice! Imagine telling someone diagnosed with the beginning stages of cancer that you support their decision to continue smoking and continuing their other unhealthy lifestyle choices. Yet this is what progressives ask of Christians in regard to the homosexual lifestyle, ignoring evidence that homosexuality is bodily harmful, and becoming outraged at Christian concern for the immortal souls of persons who actively engage in this spiritually deadly lifestyle.

Pax,

Thomistic

Mona Alona

I would say the pastor of Most Holy Redeemer parish is right on board with the "pro-gay" ministries which endorse (or at least tolerate) homosexual activity, and judging by the photos linked below, I don't think "gays" at this parish are being told to turn away from their sin. I think they're being encouraged to indulge in it.

Here is a photo of two men preparing for a kiss on the lips.

Here is a photo with MHR parishioners waving their rainbow flags waiting to be in the GAY PRIDE PARADE. Take notice of the shirts which read: "Most Holy Redeemer An Inclusive Catholic Church Pride 2006" The back of the shirt reads "One of the Most Vibrant Catholic Parishes"

It appears the church was selling pride packs for $20 each

Fr. Meriweather preparing to bless the parade participants

More of the same

A priest with his PRIDE shirt on over his clerics

Fr. Meriweather blessing the parade participants with holy water

More of the same

MHR Parishioners Marching in the Pride Parade. Notice the shirtless/nipple pierced men holding MHR signs.

More Pride & Activism

From looking at various photos of events I've noticed that this parish seems to be totally childless which is a blessing since no child should be exposed to this, but just stop and think: if every parish was like MHR in about 100 years there would be no more people.

John

Am I the only Catholic (among many of you here) who are outraged by this? I post on another blog and was all but chastised. The continued garbage "does not happen in my church", "my whatever" is so sickening by so called Catholics willing to let the continued erosion of the church which is infiltrated at the highest levels. Why would the Pope, the man we are supposed to believe is infallible, choose a man like Levada to succeed him. Has he said anything in two years on faith and morals? And then the Pope chooses this clown.

A rollback is needed, not obedience or "conservativism", a rollback to before Vatican II and this "spirit" nonsense. This is not a rare occurance anymore but abuse at the highest levels is now commonplace in every form

James


I'm really, really outraged John, and have been for some years now.

Particularly after I found out that scores of teenage boys had been molested and raped by sodomite priests in towns all around me.

Actually - I was more than outraged; I was so nauseated and shocked I couldn't even sleep for many nights.

Then - little by little - I realized the exact same thing had been happening in huge dens of priestly sodomy all over the US - in Boston (100 priests removed), in Long Island, in Philadelphia, etc. etc. And then, I discovered that this had been happening in many other countries.

The damage? Tens of thousands of youth (almost all boys) raped, molested, homosexualized, and soul-deadened.

I'm more than outraged. I HATE this sodomitic evil (not the people - the EVIL) that has infected our Church.

James

Thomistic

With her permission, I combined Mona Alona's posts and made the links active. (See above.)

She has contacted me by e-mail and told me the following:

Before I posted my first comment I called the SF diocese to and told them about the photos and the article (I didn't mention your blog though). The woman I talked to said that the diocese does not condone these activities and she also said they gotten several calls of complaints today regarding this. She said she would check out the MHR website and forward them on the the bishop's office. If they actually do anything with this the photos might not be there too much longer.

I would encourage readers to send copies of the web page (before it is taken down) to the Holy See:

Pope Benedict XVI

Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith

Please be respectful and try to avoid coming across like you are unhinged.

Pax,

Thomistic

James


Oh yeah, John. The other thing which shocks me - like you - to the core is the lack of total outrage from so, so, so many Catholics.

I couldn't believe it here.

I couldn't believe that the Pope didn't fire the bishops who caused the sexual scandal.

I couldn't believe that the US bishops' conference couldn't admit to the sodomitic evil in the Church.

I mean - I have lost a great deal of confidence in bishops, and I trust no priest until I really have a handle on the man.

I'm a parent, with two sons and a daughter.

We parents have been betrayed; all Catholics have been betrayed by this evil.

Catholics continue to be betrayed in the US by heterodox and lukewarm and sodomy-loving priests and bishops.

It never seems to end.

James

Qualis Rex

Thomistic, honestly, no, I didn't read the article in question, nor did I read the sermon. But as per Hilary's post, the even was somewhat of a hoax and not endorsed by the church. So, it makes sense.

Thomistic

Qualis Rex,

You should read the article, and look at the linked pictures of the priest and parish provided by a reader above.

Even if there was not a Mass, this activity is being used to give the impression that the Archdiocese approves of this type of activity at this parish.

There is clearly heterodox theology and even sinful activity endorsed at this parish, and the pictures make it clear that priests are involved, at least by tolerating it, if not by openly endorsing it themselves (which, it appears to me, is what they are doing).

Pax,

Thomistic

Qualis Rex

Thomas I have never been to the parish in question, but I do believe that. Unfortunately, the church throughout is guilty of the sin of omission in this and many other issues. Not a surprise, saddly.

James


"And then many will be led into sin; they will betray and hate one another. Many false prophets will arise and deceive many; and because of the increase of evildoing, the love of many will grow cold."

---

James

dmedici

Catholics have a weapon - the rosary - they can use to end the dominance of homosexuality over the Church in San Francisco. I will offer decades for this intention and for Archbishop Niederauer. Who will join me?

jim

"Being gay is not special," he said. "It's simply another gift from God who created us as rainbow people."

I find this to be a most amusing line...too silly to be taken seriously...

A Simple Sinner

"Where is Archbishop Niederauer?"

Why, defending the ArchD of SF from the traditionalists!

Patrick

Catholics have a weapon - the rosary...

Dmedici, you are correct. That may be our best weapon. Thankyou for the reminder. I just hope those aren't priests in the above photo.

Dan

I quote from another comment: "....if this purpose of this mass and ministry is to turn homosexuals away from sin, then I ask, what is wrong with it?" Nothing --- IF this is the purpose. I suspect, though, that this is not the purpose. If that was the purpose, they wouldn't need to have a 'special' Mass, and bingo night.

Adulterers don't get a 'special' Mass - yet...

Qualis Rex

Dan, adulterers haven't set up their own visible "community" to promote and display their sins and vices publicly.

But as I mentioned, there are many ministries for sex workers (I helped out in one of them one summer). This includes prostitutes, "exotic dancers" and essentially anyone who makes a living from the sex-trade. These people DO have a "community" which not only publicly promotes and displays sin, but puts up obstacles, traps and barriers for them to leave.

All I can say is, "he who is without sin..."

Thomistic

Qualis Rex,

As I said before, any ministry calling people out of a life of sin is good and laudable.

That being said, that isn't what's happening here in this parish. Heterodox messages are being sent, and it seems that homosexuality is not being treated as an objectively disordered inclination. It also looks like homosexual activity is being tolerated by priests and laity within this parish (especially given the pictures linked above in Mona Alona's comments, as well as the descriptions of events on parish grounds within the linked article (which you said you haven't read) and the comments from one of the priests also contained within the article).

I am confused about why you have a difficulty understanding how what is going on at this parish is deeply problematic and worthy of criticism (and probably censure fro Church authorities).

Pax,

Thomistic

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