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Tuesday, October 30, 2007

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Mona Alona

If there were a list of the most progressive Catholic Churches in California (is there a list?) Sts. Jivin and Jude would be among the top 10. Sts. Jivin and Jude in my book is the most liberal and progressive in the Diocese of Orange. Corpus Christi Church (a Catholic-Christian Community), where Barney the dinosaur is pastor comes in second place.

Rita

I had not heard of that particular sermon by Fr. Mondor, however I did hear that in one of his sermons he touted the movie "Philadelphia" making it a lesson for all in how those who suffer with HIV are so often treated unkindly. The Gospel that Sunday was about the only grateful healed leper out of ten. I really don't get the correlation. That Gospel is about gratitude to God, not discriminatory behavior toward homosexual persons who are HIV positive. I don't believe any Catholic would disagree with Fr. Mondor's exhortation to be kind not just to those who suffer with AIDS etc, but to virtually everyone. But his sermon was a nonsequitur at best and what is so tragic is that Fr. Mondor didn't stress that HIV/AIDS was the LEAST of Tom Hanks' character's problems. The character played by Hanks is a practicing homosexual. He's in big spiritual trouble. Isn't it the obligation of a Catholic priest to stress that at least as much as promoting kindness? It sounds like Fr. Mondor gave the impression that Hanks' character's worst problem is people being mean to him. Well, I say there's nothing meaner than making souls feel very comfortable on their road to perdition.

CatholicCrusader

The 1973 movie “The Exorcist” was on television again the other night, and I was once again struck by Father Lankester Merrin’s exhortation to Father Damien Karras at the outset of the exorcism. Father Merrin said, “Especially important is the warning to avoid conversations with the demon. We may ask what is relevant but anything beyond that is dangerous. He is a liar. The demon is a liar. He will lie to confuse us. But he will also mix lies with the truth to attack us. The attack is psychological, Damien, and powerful. So don’t listen to him. Remember that — do not listen.”

So it is with those, including the vast Hollywood propaganda machine, who tirelessly promote the homosexual agenda. We’re called to be loving and compassionate toward all people, including those struggling with same-sex attraction, of course, and even those suffering from HIV/AIDS resulting from homosexual activity or drug abuse. But it does not follow that we should therefore turn a blind eye to the sin, and not admonish the sinner. We’re even seemingly expected to ignore the teachings of Christ and the Church in order not to make waves or to appear judgmental. For the sake of political correctness, we’re supposed to cower in silence and not speak up for what is right and the Truth.

Therein is the dangerous mix of lies and the Truth. Hollywood and popular media are working overtime to persuade us that not only should we be cowed into silence about the aggressive homosexual agenda, we should not criticize or speak the Truth because that makes us the offenders, that makes us the evil-doers, that makes us mean-spirited and worse than the ones violating God’s laws. We’re smeared as a diversionary tactic, and this confuses a lot of good people who don’t want to be guilty of doing an injustice to anyone. So they’re effectively silenced, and the demon is successful.

The same tactic is used to persuade people that outright murder — abortion — is okay, because it is a lesser evil compared with violating someone’s right “to have control of her own body.” Those who defend life and oppose abortion are almost condemned as violators of women’s bodies, because we dare to interfere with a woman’s “right to choose” by raising troubling moral questions. Most people don’t want to virtually be accused of being rights rapists, so they are cowed into silence. Lies are mixed with a smattering of truth — no one wants to appear to be violating someone’s rights — and Satan’s agenda advances, one conscience at a time.

We need clarity here, folks. You can easily see that some of these same tactics are being used to promote bizarre liturgical practices. The goal is always to make the holy Mass more “meaningful” or “relevant,” as if that is needed. It’s a process of dumbing-down as if the True Church is in a ratings race with local mega-churches, or as if the Church is competing with popular television — as if the Mass needs to move the needle on some applause meter, and appeal to the lowest common denominator.

Where did we get this idea that going to Mass is supposed to be entertaining?

Maybe God needs to take away some of our creature comforts, including entertainment television, until people remember what they go to Mass for in the first place.

Thomas A.

If anyone wants to see the epitomy of false catholic ecumenism, one can observe the travesty which occurs every Saturday night at Sts. Simon and Jude Church in Huntington Beach, CA wherein our Lord's house is stripped of any vestige of Catholicism so as
not to "offend" the Jewish congregants attending sabbath temple service IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH (not in the parish hall). This includes covering the crucifix of the Messiah of all Gentiles AND Jews. This is not a charitable act to our Jewish brethren. It is a blatant denial of the salvific act of Jesus Christ - the most important moment in the history of human civilization - by priests who are supposed to be an alter Christos, all in favor of wimpy, "why can't we all just get along" false ecumenism. At best, it's "sloppy agape"; at worst it is being ashamed and too afraid to proclaim the crucified One as the Son of God to His very own ancestors. Please pray for the poor misled souls at that confused parish.

Frank

Ecumenism is evil, and I cant seem to get over how the Popes of these past 40 years think nothing of worshipping with Mosques, temples, and kissing Korans when I have never ever seen a picture of a rabbi or Iman in a Catholic church kneeling and showing respect to our faith and beliefs

I can only surmise something horrible about this, and if these men want to be called and treated as Vicar's of Christ, then they really do not act like Christ or his Apostles who would have rather died than worship false Gods while from Paul VI to JPII Ecumenism is the norm

TM Lutas

A few comments in the nature of "don't overdo it". Eastern christians do not kneel at divine liturgy on Sundays. Eastern Catholics sometimes do but that's generally a hangover from the bad old days where the Roman Rite was regarded as preeminent and many eastern prelates developed a serious inferiority complex. We also use leavened bread. So let's not make the mistake of making it more than it is.

On the other hand, it would be equally bad to make it less than it is. These practices are an offense against discipline and very oddly against the spirit of Vatican II. How retrograde is it in this day and age to think that you can rape the treasury of the East and mix multiple rites into one liturgy. What are these people thinking? The injunction to keep the rites separate imposed an obligation upon the whole Church, not just the 22 sui iuris Churches that make up Eastern Catholicism.

Ultimately, each sui iuris Church makes its own particular law, its own disciplines, its own rituals in an organically developing whole linked intimately via apostolic succession to the original apostles and their Teacher. Break the barriers between rites and you lose the whole and wake up with a Frankenstein, a monster of parts and no guarantee what will come of it.

Nothing hurts a 'progressive' worse than to find out that he's a retrograde imperialist after all. I wish all here the best of luck in fixing up their own rite.

God save that brave little parish!

Patrick

How retrograde is it in this day and age to think that you can rape the treasury of the East and mix multiple rites into one liturgy. What are these people thinking? The injunction to keep the rites separate imposed an obligation upon the whole Church, not just the 22 sui iuris Churches that make up Eastern Catholicism.

Well said! It should be remembered that the Latin Rite is one of many rites within the Catholic Church. Those who mix and match within the Latin Rite are behaving arrogantly--without respect to their own tradition or others.

We also use leavened bread. So let's not make the mistake of making it more than it is.

Within the Latin Rite, leavened bread is valid but illicit. In other words, the consecration is valid but the priest broke the rules by using leavened bread (unless he had special permission). Unleavened bread is the norm in the Latin Church.

The addition of other ingredients (sugar, etc.) may invalidate the sacrament. The priest should know better unless, of course, he no longer believes in the Eucharist.

Eastern christians do not kneel at divine liturgy on Sundays.

In the East, as in the early Church, kneeling is seen as the posture penitence. However, in the Latin West, during the Middle Ages, kneeling came to be seen as an act of adoration. This is an example of organic development within a culture and liturgical tradition. After Vatican II, Latin Rite Catholics were robbed of their culture and liturgical tradition by academics and professional liturgists who decided they should throw away anything that doesn't fit in with their theories and visions.

Atlanta Catholic

Dear Father Christian Mondor,

I listened to your homilies.
If we pretended to be Jewish or illegals with Aids, would you find the compassion to let us kneel down and worship as we have always done? I bet you would. Please be careful how your preach about Social Justice. Real Social Justice is not selective. Charity covers a multitude of sins but not when it is selective charity.

I am sorry that you chose daily communicants to pick on for kneeling. An apology would go a long way. I would not try to back peddle your comments. You hurt and offended people. I know that you have been kind to many people. Our faith entails much more than kindness. That is why you deserve the truth!

Patrick

Atlanta,

In this town, last Sunday, the Mass I attended was partially in Swahili. This ocurred despite the fact that there are very few Africans or African-Americans ocuppying the parish or town. The congregation is mostly grey-haired white folks. The Mass was billed as an "African cultural celebration Mass." It followed the "Mexican Independance Day Mass" from a few weeks ago.

It looked like the video Thomistic posted awhile back with dancers and loud African music. A Nigerian priest was brought in from another part of the state to concelebrate and deliver the homily. For the homily he sang "if you're happy clap your hands [clap, clap]."

How is that for irony? These "Latin Rite" priests wouldn't be caught dead saying a Mass in Latin. But, Swahili in Arizona is a great idea!

These Masses seem to be the brain child of a liberal, young priest from California. He is the "enlightened one" who will save all the "white, racist, conservative hicks" from themselves.

There is an SSPX Mass in this town. I am seriously considering attending it. The diocesen parish is becoming intolerable.

Patrick

Atlanta,

In this town, last Sunday, the Mass I attended was partially in Swahili. This ocurred despite the fact that there are very few Africans or African-Americans ocuppying the parish or town. The congregation is mostly grey-haired white folks. The Mass was billed as an "African cultural celebration Mass." It followed the "Mexican Independance Day Mass" from a few weeks ago.

It looked like the video Thomistic posted awhile back with dancers and loud African music. A Nigerian priest was brought in from another part of the state to concelebrate and deliver the homily. For the homily he sang "if you're happy clap your hands [clap, clap]."

How is that for irony? These "Latin Rite" priests wouldn't be caught dead saying a Mass in Latin. But, Swahili in Arizona is a great idea!

These Masses seem to be the brain child of a liberal, young priest from California. He is the "enlightened one" who will save all the "white, racist, conservative hicks" from themselves.

There is an SSPX Mass in this town. I am seriously considering attending it. The diocesen parish is becoming intolerable.

Frank

Patrick

God bless you, as I have experienced the same, with masses in Spanish that are so pentacostal it is sickening, while the Bishop refuses to allow a Latin Mass or I think there is one about 20 miles away

They have African masses and Spanish masses and all kinds of other abuses, but forbid if you ask for Latin or reverence. I can only surmise there is something very sinister and evil that is taking place or took place in the seminaries in the 60's to the 80's as these Bishops and older priests are products of that time, not to mention what happened when the council was convened and how quick they ripped out the altar rails and moved the "table" as it is now, but complain that the church today just is not set up for a Traditional Mass


Many of my family attend SSPX and SSPV chapels and make fun of my family and I for searching for what they call the "Insult" mass. Maybe they are right, who knows......

TM Lutas

Patrick

Some of the East has zones so poor that sometimes proper bread is unavailable. My knowledge of this made me stretch a little and offer charity to the poor father. The rule, I believe, is that one should create appropriate bread (there's a whole ceremony over that) and, if one cannot unleavened bread may used and if that is not available, ordinary bread may be used. This is a function of poverty and disorder and doesn't really apply in a well ordered, rich country like the US but it is barely possible that Fr. is merely confused so I went with that in all charity.

The larger point is that good orthodox Roman rite figures may treat your complaints with less seriousness than they ultimately deserve if you, all unknowing, slander the East. The offense seems great enough as it is. Why muddy up your own case? You don't want anybody to have a "yes, but" moment when you present a complaint of priestly abuse. It should all be nodding heads and a growing impulse to immediate corrective action.

Bishops and Cardinals have larger issues than a fouled up liturgy in one parish. Healing the american schism when they drove 2M ruthenians out of the Catholic Church and into Orthodoxy is one of them. Don't jog their elbows and the larger issues won't impact on your correct desire for orthodoxy inside your own sui iuris Church.

The barriers to bringing Orthodoxy in full, visible union with the Church is a particular, personal concern of mine. The smallest things can turn into significant obstacles. That's the entire point of Orthodoxy, a central desire to get it right.

Patrick

TM,

I am not sure I understand your last post. I hope it did not appear as though I were slandering the Eastern Churches. I have often attended Eastern liturgies.

Also, this is not a question of a fouled-up liturgy at one parish. These types of abuses are widespread. Many bishops and cardinals are actually encouraging the abuses. Furthermore, I would be concerned about the validity of the Sacrament if the priest is trying to consecrate cinnamon bread.

Atlanta Catholic

TM,

I was also confused by what you wrote. What do you think the necessary spiritual tactic or approach is to heal these greater issues you mention? Since each one of us is only capable of acting locally, even though we can think about and pray for these other issues that you have brought up. A decent Mass is an important foundation that inspires faith, hope and charity.

Systematically the teachings of the Church have already been watered down for many years. This systemic disease has poisoned the whole body of the Church. Couple this with terrible experiences at Mass and the erosion continues locally, nationally and internationally.

When Catholics have to wonder if the Mass was valid locally, (due to Cardinals and Bishops who allow grave abuses at Mass) the other issues have even less of a chance at the graces necessary to heal them. We can act locally by reminding and insisting that the abuses are unacceptable. It is not even our job to be successful at it. God will handle that part. The giant cancer that is attempting to destroy the Church from within, will eventually receive the mega- dose of spiritual chemotherapy from God. Our job is to be faithful and charity begins at home.

Atlanta Catholic

Patrick,

Delicious....mmm, cinnamon bread! I guess if you sing "If your happy and you know it clap your hands, clap clap...you will be blissfully ignorant!

JMC

Personally, I would have grave doubts about going to a (technically) schismatic church like SSPX. If you have doubts about the validity of the Sacraments at your church---and, by the way, if the Consecration is invalid, so is the entire Mass---then stay home and say the Rosary. That is the approved substitute when you can't get to a valid Mass.

Frank

JMC

So it is better to go to congo masses and masses where the body of Christ is given to openly homosexuals dressed as nuns?

Lets be real, even the Vatican admitted the SSPX is valid and one fulfills their sunday obligation

I attend mass to worship GOD first and not other man and dont need to "participate" to feel worthy. I am also bound to give my children the defenses they need as Catholics to ward off and try to not fall into the temptation that is so prevalent around us in this secular world. If I or anyone can get that from a SSPX church then so be it.


Remember, if what they are doing now is wrong (mass, sacraments, etc)-then you are basically saying the entire church has been wrong for 1970 years before the New Mass and New Sacraments came out and these innovations became the norm not the exception. It was the church that Changed not SSPX who only wanted to worship God as catholics have always done

I stick around as a member of my parish because I want to be able to have a say and try to get them to reform and if all like me and my family and friends left then all that would be left are the Kumbaya catholics. But I have no issue with anybody who goes to SSPX and have attended masses there with family and it is the most pious and uplifting masses and experiences I have ever had to be honest

Jim

Perhaps these are the reasons for the return of the Tridentine Rite. It appears that a schism may well arise between Orthodox Catholics and the "Kumbaya Crowd"

Joe

For those of you that are in So. Cal and are looking for a Tridentine Mass, St. Therese in Alhambra offers one at 1pm. (The corner of Alhambra Rd. And El Molino Ave).

On the note of these abuses, corrections must be done, forcefully with chairity.

Please pray for the Church at Ss. Simon and Jude as well as for the Church in LA and Orange.

Stephen

Let us not forget that the real Antichrist will, when he comes on to the world scene will be very popular. He will be very charismatic. So the point is when we look for the “Antichrist” we shouldn’t be looking for a villain. We shouldn’t be looking for a bad guy, for that is not how he is going to appear, not to most people, at least not at first.

In fact he is going to appear as a savior. He is actually going to be responsible or seem to be responsible in solving some of humanity’s most intractable problems. Perhaps he is going to be responsible for curing some disease, or develop ways to make things grow on barren land.

This is why I am guessing that he will be an industrialist because only an industrialist could have the infrastructures to develop such technology. Obviously what pushes this guy into the world stage would be the continuing success of his company.

And from there his success and charisma is going to pull him into politics. I say pull but it was his plan all along, though like the best of politicians he will make it look like he only begrudgingly entered the political sphere.

I believe he will become the head of the European Union, an entity that right now isn’t that strong, but since I see see this as happening from 30-50 years from now I see that by then the organization will have grown in strength

I still believe we have a generation or two before he arises, but in the term of human history a generation or two isn’t that long from now.

Stephen

Let us not forget that the real Antichrist will, when he comes on to the world scene will be very popular. He will be very charismatic. So the point is when we look for the “Antichrist” we shouldn’t be looking for a villain. We shouldn’t be looking for a bad guy, for that is not how he is going to appear, not to most people, at least not at first.

In fact he is going to appear as a savior. He is actually going to be responsible or seem to be responsible in solving some of humanity’s most intractable problems. Perhaps he is going to be responsible for curing some disease, or develop ways to make things grow on barren land.

This is why I am guessing that he will be an industrialist because only an industrialist could have the infrastructures to develop such technology. Obviously what pushes this guy into the world stage would be the continuing success of his company.

And from there his success and charisma is going to pull him into politics. I say pull but it was his plan all along, though like the best of politicians he will make it look like he only begrudgingly entered the political sphere.

I believe he will become the head of the European Union, an entity that right now isn’t that strong, but since I see see this as happening from 30-50 years from now I see that by then the organization will have grown in strength

I still believe we have a generation or two before he arises, but in the term of human history a generation or two isn’t that long from now.

RB

Fr. Manville and Fr Krumm, referenced in this
article due to their egregious behaviour and statements were recently named in a lawsuit for a molestation of a boy that occurred at St Simon and Jude some 15 years ago to a now 25 year old man. I have always assumed that the problems at St. Simon and Jude were assoc. with a den of homosexual priests and their liberalness and want of changing the church.
Mostly I go to every surrounding church in my area except the closest one...St. Simon and Jude.

RB

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/diocese-school-krumm-2459723-lawsuit-abuse

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