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Tuesday, November 27, 2007

Comments

Jeffrey

Yes, he seems to find that it has some medicinal value. As does cocaine, and opium, and many other drugs that are illicit and illegal to use by lay persons.
Ron Paul's stance is that the drug wars are best fought at a community level than federally. It is a Catholic position, in that it is in line with the Jesuit idea of subsidiary. Do things at the lowest level possible.
Ron Paul does not advocate illicit drug use, but as he follows the Constitution (remember, St Thomas More also had a high regard for the rule of law) he will not legislate against medical marijuana.

anthony

When speaking on matters concerning our constitution he is intelligent and passionate to a degree that is very attractive when considering our next leader. But when the topics he is pressed on start to veer toward fringe, he sounds like a nut-job and I can't help but cringe.

Patrick

I agree with everything Ron Paul said in the video clip.

I think California has the best laws regarding marijuana for personal use. Less than an ounce for personal use is an infraction (like a parking ticket). It is not a crime. The offender pays $100. And, if I am not mistaken, California leaves the regulation of marijuana for medical purposes to the local governments.

Most people who have had experience with both marijuana and alcohol will tell you that alcohol is the far more dangerous drug in so many ways.

Joseph-USA

Do you know anybody who is currently in jail and has spent their entire life in and out of jail, and every other horrific screw up of family and children and money and every aspect of life, who was also VERY enlightened about drug laws and how "not dangerous" marijuana is-was versus alcohol?

I do.

Ron Paul is an idiot.

It is also very "Catholic" to have homosexuals ordained as Catholic priests (secretively, of course - THANKS JPII et al).

Patrick

Someone close to me died a horrible death as the result of alcoholism. I have also seen terrible suffering inflicted upon the families of alcoholics. I have never witnessed the same with regard to marijuana users.

If lives have been ruined as the result of jail stays for the personal use of marijuana (medical or otherwise), then the idiocy lies with a government which imposes draconian laws on marijuana users while murderers, rapists and gangs run hog wild in our streets.

The federal government sometimes seems to be composed of fools and crooks. Terrorists can enter our country, overstay their visas, and kill thousands of people because illegal immigrations is good for big business, but the feds will pull out all the stops to prevent some guy with terminal cancer from smoking a joint.

Lastly, I don't know what JPII or homosexuality has to do with Ron Paul's position on medical marijuana.

Joseph

It seems to me the scandalous aspect of Ron Paul is that he treats people in the light of their humanity (remember Jesus and the Leper?), that is, with a compassion lost on us Catholics. That we should believe that those "fallen from grace" should be treated as the scum of the earth. (though not as saints either). However, many times it is those people that would profess themselves Catholics that have much to learn about humility, peace and kindness.

Although this post was most likely meant to be an affront to Ron Paul and his campaign, it only shows with clarity the way he makes decisions. He is able to address the root problem of social ills and not simply reduce the argument to "they are evil and should be ridiculed".

What seems odd to me about Thomistic's choices of candidates as evident by your bringing to light their positive endorsements like "National Right to Life" is that you don't mention their glaring weaknesses:

Giulianni: Drag
http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/election2008/ig/Election-Funny-Pictures/Giuliani-In-Drag.htm

Huckabee: Corruption
http://sacdcweb08.salon.com/opinion/feature/2007/11/13/huckabee/

Romney: Mormon
(link not required; the book of mormon sent to your house courtesy of his bank)

Thompson: Two-Timer
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/09/09/report-thompsons-first-_n_63640.html

ok.. i don't think you said you supported Giuliani or Romney, but what I find perplexing is that they all endorse aggressive policies tantamount to War and yet Thomistic signs off on his comments with "pax".


and just to be fair...

Dr. Paul: Supports Medicinal Marijuana
(according to Thomistic)

Joseph-USA

Patrick -

With marijuana and all the illegal drugs, the use is limited to intoxication.

With alcohol the use is abundant and social and healthful and joyful, and the misuse, in excess, is intoxication.

There is absolutely zero value or benefit of intoxication for a human being.

Illegal drugs, mariguana being the PRIMARY gateway drug for effectively ALL illegal drug use in America, are exclusively for the purpose of intoxication.

I know someone can die of drinking too much water. SO WHAT!

And I mentioned homosexuality above because you (or some other commenter here) threw in some stupid cheap comment about some aspect of this either being "Catholic" or not being "Catholic." What rubbish, I won't waste time rereading to find it.

Patrick

Joseph,

With marijuana and all the illegal drugs, the use is limited to intoxication.

We need to establish a definition of "intoxication." And, it should be pointed out that the issue above is the MEDICAL use of marijuana. Marijuana does have legitimate medicinal uses.

With alcohol the use is abundant and social and healthful and joyful, and the misuse, in excess, is intoxication.

Some people use marijuana in a social and joyful way. And, some use it medicinally.

At one time, there were so many people who believed alcohol to be a scourge on society, that the Constitution was amended (Prohibition).

Alcohol is simply a well established, socially-accepted drug. But, I stand by my assertion that it is more dangerous than marijuana. Alcohol is physically addicting--marijuana is not. Some people are genetically predisposed to alcoholism. A few drinks on a regular bases can be enough to trigger problems.

The danger with marijuana is that it has the potential to trigger psychotic episodes in people who are predisposed to schizophrenia and other forms of mental illness. But that is also true of alcohol. Also, marijuana smoke is carcinogenic. Lastly, marijuana has the potential to be psychologically addicting and can lead to lethargy.

There is absolutely zero value or benefit of intoxication for a human being.

Actually, what people are after is an altered state of consciousness. It is natural and healthy desire. Children do it when the twirl to make themselves dizzy. We do it when we become engrossed in music, a movie or a book. Some people experience it by getting a rush from things like skydiving. Runners experience an endorphin high. Contemplative prayer, Gregorian Chant, and religious experience also alter your consciousness. They change your brain wave patterns.

Alcohol and other drugs are simply an easy and powerful way to enter into an altered state of consciousness. This whole issue should be viewed as a health problem. People need to be made aware of less-harmful, non-drug alternatives.

Illegal drugs, mariguana being the PRIMARY gateway drug for effectively ALL illegal drug use in America, are exclusively for the purpose of intoxication.

When I was in elementary school (40+) years ago they used to tell us that we would turn into heroin addicts if we dared try marijuana. The gateway theory has been disproven time and time again by reputable studies. SOME people do go on to try other drugs after marijuana, but it doesn't have anything to do with the nature of marijuana or its effect on the body.

Again, it depends on what you mean by "intoxication." Some people have a few tokes with friends and feel good (similar to the social drinker).

I know someone can die of drinking too much water. SO WHAT!

We weren't talking about water. We were discussing alcohol. And, it seems quite appropriate to point out that alcohol kills many people when comparing the dangers of alcohol vs. marijuana.

Dwight

Please excuse the side conversation.

Jeffrey, you called the principle of subsidiarity a "Jesuit" idea. Could you provide a reference on how it would be considered "Jesuit"? I'd never heard that association before. My understanding is that it is a core principle of Catholic social teaching.

Dwight

The two most destructive (albeit well-intentioned) government programs are the war on poverty (in all its aspects) and the war on drugs. The welfare system broke the family unit of many poor families by making the husband / father unnecessary by replacing him as breadwinner. The war on drugs created scarcity, making it appear that dealing in drugs could be a lucrative "business", easy money compared to getting an education and a job. Yes, we have a moral obligation to give support to the poor and to help those addicted to drugs. But the government has turned charity into their own monopoly, forcing out all solutions to the problems but their own, with devastating results.

Ron Paul is rightly called a libertarian, the root word of which is "liberty". What attribute of our humanity makes us more like God than His gift of freedom, especially the ability to freely love Him? We have tried the simplistic approach to evil by making laws against it, even when the results have done more harm than good. Liberty is what God has given us, and no one should presume to take it from us.

carlos

May I point out that whether a given substance should be legally available or not is reserved to the prudential judgment of the sovereign. In the United States, some states allow marijuana possession and use while others strictly prohibit such use.

Personally, I believe that legalization and taxation makes a lot of sense. Police officers, prosecutors, judges, and probation officers--if freed from having to deal with marijuana crimes--would be able to devote their time to other offenses. Moreover, taxing the substance would create a stream of income as well as a slight disincentive toward use.

There is a danger, however, that use--and abuse--of marijuana might increase. Additionally, we may see an increase in those who drive under the influence of marijuana. On balance, though, I think that legalization would serve important interests.

juan

To Carlos:

On use and abuse: So what? Marijuana isn't very harmful. It's actually very hard to abuse it. Also, look at the Netherlands; usage went down after it was legalized.

On driving: Look up studies. Marijuana intoxication barely effects driving, unlike alcohol. Even so, you could just make laws against it like you do against alcohol.

And you're wrong; marijuana is illegal in every state. The federal government requires it to be so and even raids medicinal marijuana facilities, stealing chronically pained and dying people's medicine that is preventing them from being in pain and dying. Absolutely disgusting and unchristian, and that's coming from an atheist.

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