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« Human Events: The Top 10 Most & Least Pro-Life States | Main | John McCain - Not Conservative, Not Good For The Pro-Life Cause »

Thursday, January 31, 2008

Comments

Glenn

Although I hold no grudge against Marciel Maciel, after 14 years in the Legion, I will not dignify him with the title of "Father" or "Reverend".

Anne Marie

A true Catholic hero has entered the House of the Father. Another saint of the 20th century. May he rest in peace.

Glenn

I hope that Maciel's victims may rest better and in peace now.

xLC

Catholic "con-man" actually. I hope God has mercy on him and that the cult methods die with him. The LC is suing Regain trying to harass, intimidate, bankrupt and shut them up.

gisellestemarie

Anne Marie: I have years of email correspondence with broken individuals and families who have suffered in the wake of this movement. I was a member myself for seven years and now am on their hit list. Odd legacy for a saint. Vindictiveness doesn't mesh well with the veneer of "Gospel charity."

TKC

If Fr Marcial didn't suffer like his Master then we couldn't be sure he was a Saint. Jesus was also wrongly accused and He died a criminal. Don't be another person in the crowd jeering abuses. Imitate Our Lady & St John at the foot of the Cross.

Atlanta Catholic

TKC,

I am not jeering but comparing Christ to someone who was accused by many of molestation is imprudent. Imitating Our Lady and St. John at the foot of the Cross would have compelled you to keep silent and just pray for this priest's soul. I do not know for sure if he ever did anything to any of his accusers. You do not know for sure either. One thing is for sure, Christ's accusers were not coming forth in droves saying that they had been molested. There is no comparison here.

The reason I am even addressing this is that I have watched good and decent people be destroyed by bad clergy. During the scandals many people refused to believe that certain priest were capable of this crime. They attacked the victims. Then the truth came out. You can ask for prayers for Father Marciel but comparing his problems to "The Unblemished Lamb", might not get you a sympathetic or listening ear. May God have mercy on his soul. That is the kindest act we can solicit for Father Marciel and all of us.

TKC

Now the truth is coming out! I appreciate your honesty. I do not think that Our Lady, who lead the Church to Pentecost kept silent. The truth must be defended for the sake of my soul as well as others. "Evil will triumph if good people do nothing."

I am defending Fr Marcial because I have witnessed the good fruits from this man's devotion to Christ, the Blessed Mother, the Church, the Pope and for souls. Isn't it said that 'you can know a good tree by its fruits.'

As Christians we must imitate our Lord Jesus Christ. This is what Fr Marcial has done through his declaration of innocence but through his charity towards his accusers.

I agree we must pray for him and let God judge him for any wrongdoings- as we shall also face our crimes against charity.

I am not saying that we shouldn't bring people to trial (don't get me wrong there). I am saying that I am not interested in judging him for accusations made against him. I can also see many parallels with Christ's persecution. Jesus warned his disciples that they too would suffer a similar fate and so they should if they are to be true followers.

I also believe that the truth will set you free and it is my intention to bring this matter into the light because that is where we will be able to learn how to be more like Christ.

ECYD

Didn't Christ teach us NOT to judge? If God didn't want what Father Maciel started, it will die on it's own, but if God does want it, it will grow.

On admonishing the sinner - take a look at the exchange between the three crucified at Calvary:
Dismas, the good thief, did a lot to merit heaven:
He admonished the sinner, the thief who ridiculed Jesus - an act of mercy, as described in the Catechism;
(Admonishing the sinner is not judgment, but an act of mercy)
He admitted he deserved his punishment - and he was punished severely;
He was defenseless against the crowd when he defended Christ - a crowd which could persecute Dismas at will - Jesus said he would acknowledge in heaven those who acknowledged Him on earth;

There is a lot in the New Testament which speaks to admonishing the sinner, but this scene at the Crucifixion demonstrates that it does not go against the Instruction of Jesus, but wins merit with Jesus.


Who else spoke for Jesus as He was dying on the cross?

Atlanta Catholic

ECYD,

I don't think you want everyone to fall into the liberal trap that says "anything goes" "live and let live" "he's a nice person to me". Please clarify that Jesus does not want anyone to judge souls.

Society has taken this to the max and now anything and everything goes. We should and must judge behavior. Behavior is a pretty steady indicator of intended actions. Our Holy Father had deemed that something in this priest's behavior was wrong. Pope Benedict asked Father Marcial to retreat to a life of prayer and penance, (which means voluntary self-punishment to show repentance for wrongdoing). Are you criticizing the Holy father for judging too?

Your logic about starting and growing this order has nothing to do with Father Maciel's innocence or guilt. We have always known that God works everything towards the good. Keeping people safe from potential predatory actions is not judging souls. This will hopefully place a standard of behavior that keeps innocent people from being harmed.

One of the most beloved priests who was a popular principal bore many good fruits on the outside appearance. He brought people to the faith. He donated money to poor people. Those poor people started to return to the sacraments because of his kindness. Behind the scenes he was molesting boy after boy. Finally, this priest admitted he had problems in counseling. He was not the head of an order who got to prolong the truth from coming out. He did not have as much at stake to lose as a saint's reputation and hundreds of vocations on the line. What person with this much at stake and possibly guilty of molesting, couldn't muster up lying about it. Many people sounded just as loyal as you. Just pray for the soul of this priest. Do yourself a favor in the future when you defend this priest at all costs. At least couch your words in "I really do not know if he did these heinous crimes, but I will pray for the repose and mercy of his soul". This is what Father Marcial would want from all of us now. Especially, if he was guilty. If he was innocent, it is a win, win situation. If he wasn't, your attitude might deny necessary prayers for his purgatory. Since, you really don't know, cover both bases. That is real charity.

Ana

As regards the person who said that Christ said not to judge: yes, the same Christ who overturned tables in the temple and drove out the money changers with a whip. See, many times people think that "judge not" menas being silent. Not so! We have the OBLIGATION to speak out in the face of evil doing: this is what the Holy Father did when he suspended Fr. Marcial Maciel. As we do not know with certainty, and may never know in this life, the truth about these accusations, we are best to simply pray for him. And for the victims as well: if they have truly suffered these attacks, they need our prayers greatly. If they have not, and the accusations are false...they DEFINITELY need our prayers! But in either case, the sheer over simplicity of saying (more or less) "Christ said not to judge, therefore we cannot talk about these accusations or ever repeat them" is a very wrong understanding of the words "judge not".

Ana

As regards the person who said that Christ said not to judge: yes, the same Christ who overturned tables in the temple and drove out the money changers with a whip. See, many times people think that "judge not" menas being silent. Not so! We have the OBLIGATION to speak out in the face of evil doing: this is what the Holy Father did when he suspended Fr. Marcial Maciel. As we do not know with certainty, and may never know in this life, the truth about these accusations, we are best to simply pray for him. And for the victims as well: if they have truly suffered these attacks, they need our prayers greatly. If they have not, and the accusations are false...they DEFINITELY need our prayers! But in either case, the sheer over simplicity of saying (more or less) "Christ said not to judge, therefore we cannot talk about these accusations or ever repeat them" is a very wrong understanding of the words "judge not".

Caroline

Fr. Maciel is the most amazing person I have ever met in my life! These "accusations" have never been proven, and he founded an amazing order of priests that my brother is considering becoming a part of. Padre Maciel knew that he'd undergo many trials and persecutions in his life time, and the defamation of his reputation to the whole world by deceitful men was his cross to bear. Just as Jesus was hated by the world, so must we all face persecution and hatred by others because of our Faith and love for Christ! VIVA CRISTO REY!!!!! VIVA JOSE LUIS SANCHEZ DEL RIO!

New Zealander

Whatever happens, The Legion and Regnum Christi are approved by the Church. As a Catholic, i trust in the pope's infallibility and in God's mysterious plan. I will continue to be a proud member of Regnum Christi, and am grateful for how my life has been positively affected by this work of the church. Jesus i trust in you

Stephen Walsh

It is saddening to see man take advantage of people faith and love of Jesus to exploit and reap his own benefits. Actively recruiting from the upper classes for the Legionary priesthood is not a wholesome goal, but rather a policy to strengthen the organization as a whole.
Caroline, I too was at one time very close with RC, ECYD, the whole deal. I too had shouted the words "Viva Christo Rey!" But there comes a time when the ideals and goodness of a group must go beyond the evil of the founder. To survive as a Christ-loving and loyal Catholic group, the Legion MUST stop with its idealistic views of the so-called "Nuestro Padre."

I went to a boys summer camp several years in a row at ICAS in New Hampshire. ICAS (Immaculate Conception Apostolic School) is one of the legion's largest "mini-seminaries". The final time i went, with my father, every student at the school put on a 2 hour-long presentation extolling the infallibility and absolute righteousness of Mr. Maciel. As a young teenager, it disturbed me to see that I could not speak normally to these students. These young men were NOT my peers. At one point I remember asking one "Hey, why do you all comb your hair that way?" (Every member of the Legion is required to wear their hair the exact same way as Maciel did.) This one kid, who I had assumed was "rebellious" enough to answer my question honestly said "I don't really know. When I first cam here I shaved my head on purpose so I wouldn't have to do it." This response brought laughter to me and this other peer of mine, but he received several negative glances from the others at the table. It was strange, not even being able to ask a kid my age if he had ever played Halo or even communicate with him as a normal human being.

The Legion remains an organization of elitism, a group dedicated to its own survival and further growth. As Machiavelli says in "The Prince," this group's survival is more important than the rights of any individual or demographic. Read the regain network to see examples of ignorance and true cruelty on the part of the legion.

In closing, Marcial Maciel suceeded in founding a huge, influential organization. He succeeded in recruiting thousands of young men to become his unwavering servants. I know, I was recruited and almost joined their ranks. Maciel, whether these accusations (note the lack of quatation marks) against him are true or not, and they are most likely true, was not a man of God but a man of power and greed. I pray for the repose of his soul and the people who have been so eagerly swept into his unholy crusade for power.

adrock

I know a young man who was a former captive of this group up in CT. When he decided he was not interested in remaining, he was not permitted to leave. His ID, credit cards, cash, and any means of communicating with the outside world were denied him. He had to wait weeks until he could get an exit interview, and was released. He recounted how scary it was. This may or may not have anything to do with Maciel, but it seems to fit in with other accounts I have heard.

I am a Catholic, and love the Church. The Devil, however, has been given permission to prowl the earth, and is barred from no institution no matter how holy it may be. We must always be wary of his tricks and deceptions.

Simple soul

adrock is wise to remind us of this truth I do not know whether there is any truth in the scandal surrounding this priest If there is it is another wound on the body of Christ and it is always better for a wound to be exposed to light and air and cleansed by prayer and pennance painful though it is to think of such evil taking place.
If there is no truth in the scandal Truth will emerge in God's time.
Either way Atlanta Catholis is also wise in suggesting we shoul pray for all concerned in the scandal including most importantly the accuser/victims.

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