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« Bishop Fulton Sheen On True & False Compassion | Main | Barack Hussein Obama's Campaign Theme Song »

Wednesday, February 13, 2008

Comments

Jimbo

So the Bishops can't invest in Hyatt because some of its customers rent porno movies?

What about Google or Yahoo? People Google search for porno sites all the time, but Catholics can't invest in those companies? Come on.

How about investing in JBL? Nah, can't do that because people use their new plasma TVs to watch porno and order porno.

How about a book company? Nope, can't do that either because some author somewhere wrote a steamy porno scene in his/her romance novel.

I agree with the Bishops on this one. There's a point when the inter-connectedness of business makes this kind of thinking a bit ridiculous. Can I shop at Target, Wal-Mart, or my local grocery store because they sell inappropriate sexual matter or atrocious gossip rags or birth control? Come on. We need a bit of perspective and common sense.

I'm sure that to invest in just about any company these days can be traced back to something that would raise the Christian eyebrows.

I don't want to support that garbage, I don't like just saying oh well to investing in corruption, but it sounds like the bishops' investing advisors made a reasonable attempt to address this concern...although perhaps some closer scrutiny could/should be done.

Mona Alona

This is outrageous. It's bad enough that our government uses the taxes we pay for abortions. We are involuntarily supporting the pornograpy industry with our Sunday tithes. Can the USCCB be trusted with anything?

Atlanta Catholic

Sorry, Jimbo! The USCCB are the "standard bearers" that have dropped the ball. "You are Peter and upon this rock I will build My Church". Did Christ hand over the Keys of the Kingdom to turn great financial gain? The only reason that the other businesses you mentioned are also tainted is because of the domino moral collapse, lack of good example and "false compassion". I think that Bishop Sheen's video just addressed this. It sounds to me like you are saying, "Everything is tainted, it's not their fault, I don't want to stop shopping at Target". Everyone likes Target. That is not the point. The USCCB needs to clean up their act. The Catholic Church founded by Jesus Christ should not have sellouts to make money. The USCCB should not be involved in anything that even gives the appearance of scandal. (We know that this is not how they are behaving on many issues) Money is the root of all evil. Don't tell me that they have to invest in businesses that involve porn. Jesus never said, "Go forth and multiply the money"! Jesus was interested in bringing Eternal Life, not Eternal Bucks. Yes, there is widespread corruption but don't remove the singularly precious responsibility that has been charged to the successors of the apostles as mere money-makers. That is a false compassion that brings prolonged pain by excusing responsibility. The USCCB has abandoned their primary purpose and duty. Please don't aid and abet bad behavior and judgment.

Jeffrey

It is the love of money that is the root of all evil. Not money itself.

carolg

I know nothing about investing and this is very worrisome to me. I never even thought of this until reading this article. I have my money in an assortment of funds. How on earth will I know exactly where it's going? Is it wrong to not know - I mean I don't even know how to find out?

Atlanta Catholic

Yes, you are correct Jeffrey. It is the love of money and not money itself. These Bishops love their fancy lifestyles, homes behind gates, plushest hotels, vacations etc. The misused power of many Bishops has corrupted the Church absolutely.

Pope John Paul II asked the Bishops to live the example of the simplicity of the apostles. So far, they are not listening. Some are but most are serving themselves. Investing in businesses that support porn is definitely not building the Kingdom that Christ talked about.

Atlanta Catholic

Yes, you are correct Jeffrey. It is the love of money and not money itself. These Bishops love their fancy lifestyles, homes behind gates, plushest hotels, vacations etc. The misused power of many Bishops has corrupted the Church absolutely.

Pope John Paul II asked the Bishops to live the example of the simplicity of the apostles. So far, they are not listening. Some are but most are serving themselves. Investing in businesses that support porn is definitely not building the Kingdom that Christ talked about.

Atlanta Catholic

Yes, you are correct Jeffrey. It is the love of money and not money itself. These Bishops love their fancy lifestyles, homes behind gates, plushest hotels, vacations etc. The misused power of many Bishops has corrupted the Church absolutely.

Pope John Paul II asked the Bishops to live the example of the simplicity of the apostles. So far, they are not listening. Some are but most are serving themselves. Investing in businesses that support porn is definitely not building the Kingdom that Christ talked about.

Atlanta Catholic

Yes, you are correct Jeffrey. It is the love of money and not money itself. These Bishops love their fancy lifestyles, homes behind gates, plushest hotels, vacations etc. The misused power of many Bishops has corrupted the Church absolutely.

Pope John Paul II asked the Bishops to live the example of the simplicity of the apostles. So far, they are not listening. Some are but most are serving themselves. Investing in businesses that support porn is definitely not building the Kingdom that Christ talked about.

ASimpleSinner

Generating over $12,000,000,000 a year in the US, porn sales constitutes a bigger business than the NHL, NFL, NBA, and MLB combined. Probably you could add NCAA sports in there as well.

Frankly, it would be exceedingly difficult to not be in some way invested in porn, abortifacient birth control, and the like. Anyone who is invested in an index fund is going to be invested in companies that profit from endeavors that are contrary to Catholic moral teaching. To own shares in a broad based index fund that holds some interest in a wide range of stocks is to be a co-owner of Playboy, Gay.com, retailers that sell pornos, retailers that sell abortifacients or real estate investment trusts that rent to abortionists.

I don't say this as an excuse, I offer this as a wake up call for everyone to do more due dilligence. Nowadays one cannot be careless with their money.

The USCCB needs to wake up and realize that they are sitting on a good deal of clout in the form of greenbacks. The opportunity to serve as activist investors is very real.

The question then becomes, will the USCCB have the testicular fortitude to stand up to Walmart, Target, the pharmeceutical companies and threaten to withdraw investment or otherwise actively dissuade companies which they own from profitting off of that which is intrisically evil?

When you consider that 12M Mormons (half of which are in the third world) belong to a church that has succeeded in growing to 30,000,000,000 assets through tithing 10% of gross income and investment, it seems that we really and truly missed the boat on this one.

A two-fold plan of tithing and reconsidering the parameters of due dilligence may be in order if we want to stay afloat financially and NOT profit from the sale of porno and birth control.

The question is, do the bishops have the will to even attempt that?

ASimpleSinner

Generating over $12,000,000,000 a year in the US, porn sales constitutes a bigger business than the NHL, NFL, NBA, and MLB combined. Probably you could add NCAA sports in there as well.

Frankly, it would be exceedingly difficult to not be in some way invested in porn, abortifacient birth control, and the like. Anyone who is invested in an index fund is going to be invested in companies that profit from endeavors that are contrary to Catholic moral teaching. To own shares in a broad based index fund that holds some interest in a wide range of stocks is to be a co-owner of Playboy, Gay-dot-com, retailers that sell pornos, retailers that sell abortifacients or real estate investment trusts that rent to abortionists.

I don't say this as an excuse, I offer this as a wake up call for everyone to do more due dilligence. Nowadays one cannot be careless with their money.

The USCCB needs to wake up and realize that they are sitting on a good deal of clout in the form of greenbacks. The opportunity to serve as activist investors is very real.

The question then becomes, will the USCCB have the testicular fortitude to stand up to Walmart, Target, the pharmeceutical companies and threaten to withdraw investment or otherwise actively dissuade companies which they own from profitting off of that which is intrisically evil?

When you consider that 12M Mormons (half of which are in the third world) belong to a church that has succeeded in growing to 30,000,000,000 assets through tithing 10% of gross income and investment, it seems that we really and truly missed the boat on this one.

A two-fold plan of tithing and reconsidering the parameters of due dilligence may be in order if we want to stay afloat financially and NOT profit from the sale of porno and birth control.

The question is, do the bishops have the will to even attempt that?

Jimbo

There you have the soaring Obama rhetoric about these investments without addressing anything I've said.

What you're saying is ridiculous and untenable in today's business world. We ALL support porno sales in some way. We all shop at stores, buy magazines that sell the stuff, which makes the publication and sale of this stuff possible. This is much more culpible than investing in some corporation that owns a company that makes some small profit (say one cent in $2 profit per share) on such stuff. Get real. It's always easier to point the finger, though.

I'm sorry. I don't expect the USCCB to do an exhaustive search into these companies to find out that some small part of Company X's profits, owned by Corporation Y, is made on the National Inquirer or Porno sales. That there investment group is dropping the ball does NOT reflect on the bishops, at least in my way of moral reasoning. All condemnation all the time. You even blame the bishops for what they're NOT doing.

Now, you can complain about the Bishops investing their money at all as a way to make money, but then I'll ask you to stop complaining and break out your checkbook to support the Church better--whether that's retired priests/bishops or the general fund for dioceses, et cetera. Oh, but you don't want to do that either. Nice. I've heard the calls and comments here from at least a few people saying their money is going elsewhere right now.

By the way, "You are Peter..." refers to Peter and successor Popes, not the USCCB or any other Bishop other than the Roman one.

Jeffrey

There are investment companies that specialize in offer mutual funds that invest in companies whose core values do not violate Catholic morals. Ave Maria funds is one, and I think another is named after Thomas Aquinas, but I don't remember for sure.

My point is you can invest responsibly without too much difficulty by using Google. It would behoove us all to inform our parishes of these investors as well to support them in the bulletins or something.

I don't have a problem with investing in the S&P 500 or Nasdaq index, because it is impossible to avoid supporting companies indirectly.

It's like paying Roman taxes back in the day-that money wasn't going to good use, but it was a necessary evil.

Gene

Epiphany is the other fund family. BTW, Procter and Gamble does not make contraceptives (but Johnson & Johnson does, maybe some confusion). Also, Ave Maria doesn't exclude contraceptives. The Epiphany Fund recently announced it was going to become an index that performed like the S&P 500. Maybe check that one out.

Jeffrey

Thomistic,
I'd like to request you remove my above post or delete the P&G reference. Upon Gene's rec I've checked their site and can't find any contraceptives, and don't want to be smearing them wrongly.
Thanks, and thanks Gene.
Jeffrey

We must keep doing what we can to live good lives and "let the dead bury their dead". The wheat and the weeds must grow together for the length of this world but the day will come when God Himself will sort us all out. Meanwhile "watch and pray".
God bless us all

We must keep doing what we can to live good lives and "let the dead bury their dead". The wheat and the weeds must grow together for the length of this world but the day will come when God Himself will sort us all out. Meanwhile "watch and pray".
God bless us all

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