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Wednesday, June 11, 2008

Comments

MPI

A central question is whether the practice of ongoing individual spiritual direction (or guidance) to children as young as the fifth grade by priests/brothers/consecrated women as practiced in the Regnum Christi youth groups Challenge and Conquest is generally a good idea. No doubt LC/RC will be faithful and obedient to Arch. O'Brien's requests, but this obedience should also be paired with thoughful reflection on what he is communicating.

A quick review reveals Archbishop O'Brien may be one of the few American Archbishops without charges of hiding pedophile priests hanging over his head. Perhaps he is actually looking to protect Baltimore's young Catholics.

www.newarkarchbishop.com

Anon

I guess a diocese has nothing to worry about a group that has rules like:

SECRECY:
“3) learn to be discrete at all times in sharing information about the current situation or reality of the Movement itself, especially with those families who do not belong to it; ”

– maybe the Archdiocese thinks someone should know?

“569. Never facilitate, without serious cause, oral or written distribution of reports or facts about legionaries, or writings of the Legion without authorization by superiors. Be very prudent and discreet in your comments so as not to unnecessarily damage the Legion. ”

– clearly the Archdiocese must INSIST on reports, or they clearly will not receive any information.

“570. Be shrewd when dealing with strangers. Respond with precision, moderation and discretion to questions they may ask, keeping in mind the good or evil they are capable of doing to the Legion and to each other in passing along a fact or expressing an opinion.”

– In the LC paranoid mindset, the Archdiocese IS A STRANGER.

“572. Avoid dealing with or discussing personal problems with your companions. It is better to refer these problems to those whom God has designated to help you on your road to loyalty and satisfaction.”

– not even fellow LCs know what each other really thinks.

FAMILY

“65. When receiving family visits, always appear happy, cordial, attentive, grateful and satisfied with the vocation that God has granted you. ”

– even when the youth is unhappy?

“66. Do not fall into states of sadness or homesickness in your relationship with your family and do not become accustomed to discussing with family members your emotional state when you are experiencing depression or some unresolved difficulty so that you do not disturb them with problems that relate solely to your personal relationship with God and with the Legion.”

– why shouldn’t one feel free to discuss issues with family?

“68. Try to rouse family members sympathetic to the Legion so that they may support it with their prayers and sacrifices, in word and in deed, and especially so that they may become instruments in the search for new vocations.”

– so they should turn their family into recruiters?

How do they recruit?

103. Recruitment must happen in stages:
From friendliness (some manuals say "kindness" or "sympathy") to friendship.
From friendship to confidence.
From confidence to commitment.
From commitment to submission (total surrender")

94. To achieve its apostolic objectives, the Regnum Christi Movement chooses “cellular action” as its working model - person-to-person, top-to-bottom relationships - or action directed through leaders, so that the dignity and relational character of the human person can be better reconciled, greater results can be achieved within societal structure and diversity, and which fully respects the divine charater and human free will that distinguishes the process of faith and salvation.

96. All things being equal and taking into account various needs and possible inconveniences, always try to choose and accomplish, with the approval of the appropriate directors, those works which by their nature and are most effective and can thereby provide the Movement with greater influence in the establishment and expansion of the Kingdom of Christ.

99. In accordance with a spirit of apostolic humility and evangelical discretion, avoid launching open campaigns or issuing publicity statements concerning the nature, goals, methods and apostolic activities of Regnum Christi.

**** Never communicate to outsiders the number of its members nor give them lists of persons or works of the Movement.****

--Thus the need for the Archbishop's request. Will they fully comply?

More...
243. Try to establish personal connections aimed at recruiting, especially of leaders, and to promote among your friends and professional acquaintances the open activities of the Movement, whether they be related to personal formation such as retreats, spiritual exercises, study groups, spiritual dialogue or orientation, etc., or to spreading of Catholic culture such as conferences, workshops, conventions, etc., or to some other specific apostolate.

244. Try to attain important posts in social, civic, cultural, professional, economic and other organizations in order to instill Christian spirit into the public and private lives of their members and thereby into all of society, and in order to procure a growing number of members for the Movement.

Anon

Sorry for the multiple postings. Please delete them if you can.

Anon

ReGAIN was sued for having posts with LC norms quoted on them. Way before the law suit, and predating the postings, there were myriad places on the internet to find this stuff. Great argument for ReGAIN to make, but they had no money for the lawyers to defend themselves against a monolithic money machine: the wonderful Legion of Christ.

John

I was invovled with RC many years and I have to say the Legion was inordinately aggressive. My son @ 12y.o was subject to intense pressure to join their apostolic school to the point he was in tears. I know of many other individuals who have experienced the same thing.

David1

Human beings have an internal drive to identify themselves with groups. "I'm a (fill in the blank)." This can easily evolve into an us vs them attitude. Trying to reconcile "love your neighbor" with this need to be in a group is very difficult. "Who is our neighbor" is something Christ addressed. I don't know the LC's, but it sounds like they should open up their definition of neighbor.

Annie Witz

Many good faithful Catholics will have nothing to do with the Legion because of some cult like tactics. Trying to get a 12 year old to sign up for seminary in this day and age is shameful. I will keep my kids away from all of their groups.

catherine

"B) The Legion's vocations recruitments is so successful the Archbishop is concerned they are draining vocations from his seminary"

A look at the increase of vocations in the archdiocese of Baltimore would discount this hypothesis. Also, there are relatively few faithful of the Archdiocese of Baltimore who are legionary priests -- I believe only 4 Baltimore men in their almost 20 year presence in Baltimore have been ordained Legionary priests.

I think we can conclude with substantial assurance that O'Brien has reason to be suspect of their tactics with the youth. And remember, the "Letter of understanding" does not place restrictions on the recruitment of young boys only -- it is of all under the age of 18, and the Legion and Regnum Christi have to report on all their activities (including activities of adult men and women, and of the young girls). Can we go so far as to say he has concerns with the whole group? He is definitely monitoring the WHOLE of their activity in his diocese.

catie

Any questions about what this "Letter of Understanding" meant, where it came from, and its gravity?
This article is a must-read: http://ncrcafe.org/node/1906

catie

If you go to that article by John Allen (http://ncrcafe.org/node/1906) read the transcript of the interview with the Archbishop. It leaves little space for "misunderstandings."

Watcher

What if the Regnum Cristi member is a parent? He can't give spiritual direction to his own child? What if the child asks for spiritual direction from an LC priest in confession? How could the bishop's order be handled then?

Matthew

It is not an issues with vocations, the issues is that the Legion does not and has refused to work with the Diocesan Priests. The Legion came in without permission several years ago and when asked by the Cardinal and local priests to work with the diocese as they are required to by Canon Law, it was ignored. Parents have also complained. When members of Regnum Christi offered to lead a marriage prep course, the refused the pastors request to look at the material because "Only LC Priests and Regnum Christi members may see the material." The decision was a long time coming and the process begun a few years ago by Cardinal Keeler. This was requested by the priests and faithful of the Archdiocese. The Legion is fortunate that they have been given a chance, as it is the Archbishop's perogative and right per Canon Law to ask the Legion to leave the diocese, as has already occured in Cleveland and St. Paul.

Matthew

It is not an issues with vocations, the issues is that the Legion does not and has refused to work with the Diocesan Priests. The Legion came in without permission several years ago and when asked by the Cardinal and local priests to work with the diocese as they are required to by Canon Law, it was ignored. Parents have also complained. When members of Regnum Christi offered to lead a marriage prep course, the refused the pastors request to look at the material because "Only LC Priests and Regnum Christi members may see the material." The decision was a long time coming and the process begun a few years ago by Cardinal Keeler. This was requested by the priests and faithful of the Archdiocese. The Legion is fortunate that they have been given a chance, as it is the Archbishop's perogative and right per Canon Law to ask the Legion to leave the diocese, as has already occured in Cleveland and St. Paul.

Margie

My daughter is participating in challenge and I am now very worried that I have made an uninformed decision as to whether she should be participating with this group!!

Dominic.

If you have doubts Margie,get her out!And find instead a reputable,convent school to send her to,that has no radical or liberalist affiliations.
A Dominican or even Carmelite school would be ideal.
Strict,with a focus on chastity and prayer,but not fanatical as some of these new''orders'' have been shown to be.
In other words,NORMAL Catholic schools.
Do some heavy research before you commit to enrolling her at any place you might have reservations about.YOU have the final say about WHO teaches your child ,and who influences your child's formation as a Catholic.

God bless you in your efforts.
And be careful.

Dominic.
+++

Simple Soul

Great advice from Dominic.

Fiat

If the scandal surrounding the Legionnaires proves to be true perhaps it would be wise for the order to be disbanded and its members be absorbed into other orders ?

Dominic.

As an addendum to my post to Margie:
It IS possible now to screen the faculty members of schools now,for their performance records,work histories,and most importantly,their personal views and policies,and above all their criminal/drug histories or lack of one.If you have a sex-offender database in your local area,make use of it if your suspicions become aroused.
PLEASE take advantage of this in particular and get a general background check of the faculty at ANY school,religious or otherwise ,that you consider for your daughter.
You might just save her from an unwanted advance{ or attack }from a predator in a cassock or habit,either male OR female.
I am not trying to put you in a panic,dear sister,but giving you ways by which you might avoid untold grief for yourself and your child.

''Be as subtle as serpents,yet as innocent as doves.''

Dominus Vobiscum,

Dominic.
+++

Fiat

The age of Margie's daughter is irrelevant

Dominic.

Margie is making the decision.It is implicit in her post,''Jake''.
Now butt out ,you scandal-monger.

Dominic.
+++

Fiat

I believe you were addressing Fiat Jake My poit still stands.The age of the daughter is none of our business and has no relevance to this discussion.

Dominic.

And nobody was talking to you either.
Keep being a smart-ass,and I'll find out just HOw to get you banned from this blog.
Your signature contribution to the conteny her seems to be snark-filled harrassment of the conservative,Catholic,and the aithful who refuse to corrupt themselves the way you have yourself.
And your oh-so-cute 'twinky'' asides at me will cease as of NOW.
Otherwise,I WILL get nasty about it.
Don't give me an excuse.
It would be all to easy to just let fly and curse you out,and I'm really trying to break out of that mindset.
But in your miserable case,it might just be unavoidable.


But you just seem to get off on provoking people in general.
Especially with your comparisons of Communion and sex.
You are a degenerate.


Sick piece of....

Dominic.
+++

Dominic.

And if you thought that some of my earlier remarks were threats,keep dreaming.
This is not a threat.
It's a PROMISE.


Dominic.
+++

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