Catholic Calisthenics

My fiance and I went down to Riverside County to spend Christmas with my dad. Although she is not Catholic (her late father was a Pentecostal Minister) she has attended Mass with us on numerous occasions. It has been interesting to to hear her observations, coming as they do from a "neophyte."

 

I live in the City of Fresno, in the Fresno Diocese under Bishop John Steinbock (pic above). My dad lives in Riverside County, in the Diocese of San Bernardino under Bishop Gerald Barnes (pic below).

My Fiance has quipped that the missalette is her best friend, being unfamiliar with the "Catholic Calisthenics" of the stand, sit or kneel of the Mass.

Recently she noticed that while in Fresno we kneel after the Agnus Dei,

in San Bernardino Diocese worshipers do not kneel, but stand.

In particular she pointed out to me a "footnote" in the missalette used in the San Bernardino Diocese that states, and here I paraphrase "Local Ordinaries may allow worshipers to stand after the Lamb of God, GIRM ###." I had never noticed the footnote, and perhaps its not surprising that she did as she is an attorney.

After mass, as we walked to our car, and over dinner later, we talked about the footnote and in frankness I became more and more irritated.

The missal in question was published by Oregon Catholic Press. I think it would be revealing for the average mass goer if they would start publishing more than the sections of the GIRM (General instructions Roman Missal) that "help" the neo-modernists attack the Mass.

Now I've heard the line about how "we're the people of the Resurrection" and its not necessary to "engage in antiquated postures" blah blah blah. I heard it in seminary twenty years ago, and I've heard it from parish priests trying to tow the party line today. It's all bunk.

When Satan tempted our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ what did he say?

Again the devil took Him up into a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them. And said to him: All these will I give Thee, if falling down Thou wilt adore me. Douay-Rheims - Matthew 4:8-9 (my underline added)

"Iterum assumit eum Diabolus in montem excelsum valde et ostendit ei omnia regna mundi et gloriam eorum et dicit illi: "Haec tibi omnia dabo, si cadens adoraveris me"." Vulgate - Matthew 4:8-9

If the posture of prayer is important to both the prince of darkness and the Prince of Peace, shouldn't it also be for we mere mortals?

Comments

[Simple soul]

I too have been surprised and disheartened by the gradual development of a trend towards standing I suspect it has happened because of the singing of the Agnus Dei with people thinking they should remain standing I try to kneel and sing because I feel we should be in that posture but I can understand the ordinary parishioner has become confused and it needs more clear example from the presiding priest who seem shy or reluctant to take command and lead their flock decisively at times.

[anthony]

I stopped going to a diocese ran liturgy class after one of the attendees exclaimed joyously that if Jesus walked in the room he would stand and greet him like a long lost friend... I was frowned upon by everyone in the room when I told him that he wouldn't last a second before he fell to his knees and cried like a baby.

I think it goes to show us how many people truely believe in the presence.

[Big Don]

Go to the Traditional Latin Mass and you won't have to notice or think about any of this.

[Mike]

I totally agree Big Don and have been at peace.

[jmm]

My parish does the same. When my daughter went to stand up I showed her "my" missal and pointed out where it said to kneel. It said nothing about standing. So we kneeled. Only ones to do so in the church. I still do it and will do it.

I also went to church (Little Sisters of the Poor) during work and took a coworker with me. He stood and I kneeled. When I asked him about that he said that he has not kneeled "in Church" for years, that the Vatican said you did not have to anymore. And he is a Deacon candidate. I had no response to him.

Sad

Anthony-
How un "Vatican II" of you!!! LOL!!!

[Chris]

My understanding is that this is one of the differences between European and American tradition: stand in Europe, kneel in America after Agnus Dei.

The Vatican okayed the American change and that is reflected in the GIRM and interpretations http://www.usccb.org/liturgy/current/revmissalisromanien.shtml

[Atlanta Catholic]

Chris, While it is true that the Vatican approved the GIRM regarding standing after the Agnus Dei, it was not ever the intention of the Vatican that the kneeling after the Agnus Dei should be stopped. The American Bishops did this. Cardinal Arinze sent a letter, (to a friend of a friend of mine)in Kentucky and instructed her in this letter to try her best to follow, but then Cardinal Arinze also stated that the change should not mean the removal of a Catholic's right to kneel if they desire. This letter was shown to Bishop Tod Brown. Bishop Tod Brown said that he never received a letter like that. Bishop Tod Brown did say that it was within his right as Bishop of the Diocese of Orange to have everyone stand, which is true, but then when Bishop Brown was questioned and asked if he was removing the rights of Catholics who wanted to kneel after the Agnus Dei, he responded that those Catholics who still wanted to kneel "did" have the right to kneel after the Agnus Dei in good conscience." I still kneel in good conscience because Bishop Tod Brown, even though he still wants standing admitted that we did have the right as a Catholic to kneel in good conscience.

[Andrew]

And out here in Stockton, we stand, dance, clap, stand on our heads... pretty much anything goes in Mass.

[Shin]

Ah if only I had a local F.S.S.P.! Tridentine is great for putting an end to gymnastics. Byzantine has some good points too...

The whole idea of disposable missallettes is
a problem in itself, frankly.

Time for 'the 9 Ways of Prayer of St. Dominic!'

[Matt]

I myself find myself standing and kneeling. In my opinion, we shouldn't have to succumb to the over analytical approach to worship. If you'd like to stand while worshiping, stand. If you'd like to kneel, then do so. I don't think God will condemn your soul to Hell if you find it appropriate to stand while asking for His blessings.

[Atlanta Catholic]

Matt,

Your opinion bodes very well with the number of people (including Catholics) who no longer believe in the Real Presence of Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament. Rome has stated that Catholics who want to kneel should not be denied Holy Communion. I'm sure you remember this took place don't you? It was because of the many good and analytical Catholics who cared enough and wrote to the Congregation for the Discipline of the Sacraments that Bishops stopped the practice of denying Holy Communion to Catholics who knelt. This is still taking place in some areas. I find myself very grateful that analytical Catholics took a positive approach to this problem and didn't succumb to "anything is all right with me" opinions.

At the Holy name of Jesus every knee shall bend. Matt, don't be too smug or sure about where God sends those who deny or have denied Holy Communion to the faithful for kneeling.

[Joe of St. Therese]

In LA we stand, At my parish, everyone kneels after the Agnus Dei (OF and EF) (and we're ran by the Carmelites, score)

I kneel wherever I go, it is God I adore, I don't care if i'm the only one kneeling or one of many