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« 10 Years Later, "Conservative Bishops, Liberal Results" Article Still Resonates | Main | Traditionalist Group Sees "Gleam of Hope" in Benedict »

Monday, May 16, 2005

Comments

joseph elias

lets see how willing the new pope is in upholding the teachings of the church.he ought to run mahoney off.he will not and does not deserve the title cardinal

Papaefidelis

"Jesus gave communion and invited everybody to the table," Regina Nicolosi [wearing a sash for her lesbian daughter]said. "Why focus on this, with all the other social issues that are so important?""

So far as my count goes, Jesus gave "communion" to just 14 people--the twelve apostles and the two guys on the road to Emmaus. Our Lord invited everyone to the table? Then they all held hands and sang Kumbaya, too, right? Methinks her sash maybe a bit too tight around the neck.

T. Shaw

A modest proposal and a win-win situation: That the lavender gang may join the episcopalians. They promote sodomites to bishops. And, the other win, the influx of 125 more "goats" (forgive my lack of charity, here) may double the size of the congregation.

Congratulations, Father Skluzacek, Keep the Faith!

louielouie

i believe an appropriate reference to "inviting everyone to table" would be to quote "while many are called, few are chosen".
it appears, in this instance, that the few were appropriately left out.

Papaefidelis

Hey, now. Everyone keeps wanting to send all the malcontents over to the Episcopalians. Come on, they've got enough problems of their own! Moreover, the sudden departure of so many would be like the relief of all diseases in the world--good in theory, but what would we all have to complain about? Besides, their constant rantings are a good source of mirth to me and many others (Sister Joan Chittister's column in NCR is my few moments of high hilarity for the week; she's better than Leno and Letterman combined).

anonymouse

I was actually at that mass (it's the service my husband and I usually attend), and I was struck by two things:

first, I doubt half of the people there knew what the Rainbow symbolizes in other parts of the country, namely, that it is a symbol specifically for Gay/Lesbian/Trans/bi activism. They had been told that it was a symbol of diversity. The 80 yr old women wearing them were probably not so clear on what that meant.

Second, it was clear that for a few dozen of that 120, this was their first protest.

My husband and I recently moved to St. Paul from San Francisco. In SF, everyone is always protesting. Everyone is always angry and bitter. Everything personal is political.

Here, 30-40 of the people wearing the sash were nervous and naive, the way young people often are at their first political rally. It was clear that they were timid about their protest.

Then there were the angry people. I doubt that the angry people usually attend that mass; I wonder if they ever before attended that church. (We've gone every Sunday for about 6 months, and the number of people who go to that mass regularly seems pretty low, so it could be that they are St. Paul cathedral parishoners, but that they only go a few times a year.)

One was so angry that he took off his shirt when asked to remove the sash. Others stood and refused to leave so as to block non-sash wearers from receiving communion for a minute or so. They continued to stand after communion, most with their hands out, as if they were signaling that they were still waiting.

The homily was specifically directed at them. Fr. Skluzacek told them, essentially, that gay relationships were fundamentally not truly friendships, not appropriate love. That they were a kind of corruption and dependency that many resorted to when they couldn't find the Holy Spirit.

They didn't deny communion to people wearing rainbow colors, wearing gay/lesbian pride clothing, or anything that was like the sash, but not the sash.

Fundamentally, this got out of hand because Archbishop Flinn let it get out of hand. At least in this archdiocese, the church's own political groups have really muddied the waters. They consider it unCatholic to cut transportation services in the state budget; they consider it unCatholic to not support giving illegal aliens in-state tuition at minnesota state colleges. When you have already perverted the notion of christian social justice to that kind of incoherent political viewpoint, no wonder your constituency can't figure out that politics doesn't belong in church--you told them that it did, so now, they are just echoing it back with their own political causes.

Juan

Does anyone even know whether these folks (or some thereof) are even Catholic, given the report above? Whether they are regular mass-goers? Of course in light of the grave sacrilege these are incidental questions.

anonymouse

The handful that I witnessed knew and spoke the normal Catholic liturgical sequences, but it didn't look like they were particularly familiar with the Cathedral--the Cathedral hands out a different liturgy guide every week, with all of the responses and music in it, and it refers to the book/missal; it's quite confusing for a newcomer, actually. I am not sure if many other churches in MN are similar. They seemed confused by the format, but that can even happen if you go there every week. Again, it was difficult to tell.

OhioWoodsman

Hmmmm! Living here in the heart of Amish country, I see a big paradox--if people are "born" gay, (which is the "company line" from the homos), how's come there are no queer Amish folks?

Disillusioned

I’m from the St. Paul/Minneapolis Archdiocese, and I’m surprised that Archbishop Flynn finally made the statement that he did to the Rainbow Sashayers a few weeks ago. As it is, Minneapolis currently has two de facto gay parishes (St. Steven and St. Joan of Arc). Nearly everything is tolerated here, accept for the Ushers of the Eucharist who knelt down to block some of the Rainbow Sashayers last year. They were promptly admonished for interfering (as well they should have been), but hardly a harsh word was put towards the RS group.

It’s getting to the point where more and more of the Catholics whom I know are just giving up and walking away. Without any leadership, there are too many who have decided that they will change the faith to their whims or liking. I had my fill when one of the Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion in my parish wore an Iverson basketball jersey and shorts while distributing the Eucharist. If that is the level of reverence for the Mass and the Eucharist which we have come to in the Catholic Church, and if that level of reverence is accepted by the clergy, then it is not surprising that the donations are falling and attendance is waning.

Unfortunately, it seems that the Catholic leadership in America continues to try to combat this problem with looser standards and tries to explain it away by saying that people are turned away by the pedophilia sex scandals.

I continue to pray that Pope Benedict will be able to return order and unity to the Church, but I do not truly believe that we will see that anytime soon.

JesseJr

Disillusioned,

You should try the Traditional Catholic Faith with SSPX or one of the other Trad groups (SSPV or CMRI). They do not allow any deviation from the true Catholic Faith. Most of the people in the SSPX were orginally in the novus ordo and simply got sick of the irreverence and novelties of the ever changing liturgies and rubrics.

In St. Paul, the lady above from San Francisco could easily find Immaculate Heart of Mary Church on Manomin and Annapolis where there is greater reverence paid to Jesus Christ. I should know. I used to be a regular parishioner at the Cathedral in St. Paul until I went to the Immaculate Heart of Mary....the difference in reverence is immense.

Cindy

I grew up with the Latin Mass and knew it was very holy. I just found out in 1998 that there were still priests saying the Latin Mass and now I support the SSPX. I love it, no Eucharistic ministers only the priest, no rainbow homo problems, and a holy, reverent Mass with a beautiful, 14 foot white marble altar that was restored after being discarded by the Novus Ordo.

http://www.sspxasia.com/Documents/Archbishop-Lefebvre/OpenLetterToConfusedCatholics/index.htm

anonymouse

You have to understand that coming from SF, the Cathedral is VERY reverent, and far more so than most of the parishes I found here, too. But more, I feel like I can help to make it even more reverent. The associate pastor, Fr. Talbot, who was just/is about to be reassigned to another parish, is very traditional, and my talks with him have been very rewarding. the number of adults in RCIA and getting confirmed is large. The problems don't seem to be with the young adults. I think the Cathedral is undergoing the same transformation the rest of the church is--the young are faithful and traditional. They belive the catechism. They hungered to be taught it properly. I intend to help the Cathedral find its way back. I'm fighting for it, and I hope others will too.

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