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« Where Have All The Sisters Gone? | Main | Liberal Priests Losers in Papal Election »

Wednesday, May 11, 2005

Comments

Kim McAllister

I can't believe I just read what I read............

William Bloomfield

Thanks for pointing this out.

T. Shaw

Replace the word "abortion" with "genocide" and they would rationalize (relativize?) the Holocaust.

Appropriately, Blessed Nicholas Tavalich: " . . . lies, foolish things, buffooneries, contradictions, and much that leads not to virtue and goodness but to evil and to all manner of vice."

Papaefidelis

All the author addresses is the notion of abortion as a sin, whose degree of personal culpability is INDEED dependent on things like motive, sufficient reflection, full intention, etc. That part is dealt with in the confessional (internal forum). However, the question was about excommunication, which is applied in this instance latae sententiae (in other words, automatically). It has nothing to do WHATSOEVER with "conscience of an individual." Included in the excommunication, by the way, are all willingly involved: doctors, nurses, the boyfriend who gave her a ride (but not the taxi driver or bus driver, if any were involved!), the parents who paid for it, etc.

Tony Miller

This was a great statement!

"It is so breathtakingly diabolical in its deceitfulness"

Follow your conscience sounds so... well... Christian. What the codewords really mean is "do what I want".

If following one's conscience were all that was needed, child molestation, cannibalism, and child sacrifice would be fine and dandy since at different points in time for different societies these practices were acceptable.

What they are missing is the words "Catholic informed" before conscience.

Ol' BC

I'm not Catholic, but I have difficulty with this "relativism" thing. Seems to me that those in this corner wish to be considered Catholic, but don't like that pesky church doctrine and don't wish to really subscribe to church teachings. Maybe they should consider Episcopalian or Lutheran alternatives. Centuries of Catholic doctrine aren't going to be changed overnight.

anniebird

Positively stunning in it's deliberate deceit. The only thing missing is a scripture verse.

Maximus

Tony Miller, you are exactly right. Supremacy of conscience is the big peg the Frances Kissling-types hang their entire argument upon, but as you note they unfailingly omit the "Catholic informed" part. It is the informed, properly formed conscience that we must obey -- but such a conscience would never countenance abortion. In fact, a person with such a conscience would have to disregard it in order to obtain an abortion.

I love how they phrase the last paragraph in that answer, essentially saying, "If you're one of those retrograde, superstitious Catholics who insist on thinking abortion is sinful, just go see a priest -- he'll say some fancy words and everything will be OK."

Karen

I've been a lurker till now since I can't help but react. A basic discussion of freedom and conscience would include 'responsibility' and the notion of an erroneous conscience. Where did this go?

And while I'm at it, only bishops can absolve someone who's committed an abortion. It may be possible though I'm not sure if some priests are authorised too.

Rod Anderson

Thanks for dredging this up. Particularly striking was the suggestions about whom to seek advice from: women who have had an abortion, or clergy recommended by their abortion clinic. Didn't mention one's parish priest or confessor for some reason....

Guess they're not taking any chances about which "choice" the women decide on.

Jean

This perspective is nothing new. When I was at a Catholic college in the early 70's, they brought in a team from the Menninger Clinic to talk about "Love Sex and Marriage" One of things pointed out to us was that the Church's position on when life begins had changed over the centuries, so it was not something based on fact, but only on opinion. The implication was that if you didn't share the opinion that life begins at conception, then an abortion is not ending a life, provided you don't think it is.

Howard Veit

I call people like this "cafeteria Catholics" meaning you take a little of this and a little of that and pronounce yourself full, until the next time when you "just have to have" something else.

The other day somebody or other hyped a book by a "Lesbian Muslim." Insane. This "Lesbian Muslim" was living in Michigan or someplace and didn't "have" to be a Muslim.

If you don't like the church stay out of the kitchen.....

cassandra

"... Centuries of Catholic doctrine aren't going to be changed overnight..."

Just a minor quibble, but what does time have to do with it at all? There is nothing "new" or "modern" about abortion that compels re-evaluation. This is all very, very old stuff.

Of course, it was my generation that thought it discovered sex..

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