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Monday, June 05, 2006

Comments

Dubliner

Is this the same Bishop Brown that has the Mantgilla Ladies up in arms? He sounds a courageous kind of chap to me! I don't think those Mantilla Ladies will get very far at a meeting with this prince of the church - he sounds gutsy to me.
I am amazed at the outrage of some who attended the Confirmationl seems to suggest that religion is dandy once it doesn't impinge on real issues.

Kevin in Dallas

If Bishop Brown and others like him were "gutsy", they would also chastise the Mexican government for the terrible economic conditions in that country. The fact of the matter is that if Mexico wasn't so corrupt and if the government there expanded economic opportunity, then there wouldn't be millions coming across our border every year illegally. Amazing how vocal these Bishops are about immigration compared to their timid response to abortion (ie., communion for known political supporters of abortion).

Darkness exposed in Dublin

Dubliner, are you for homosexual domestic partnership, as well as your prince of darkness? Godfreys of the same feather, lavender mafia everything but solid Church teaching together!

Illegal Rights = Gay RIghts

How courageous of this Bishop to tell Father Martin Tran to kick out kneeling Catholics. Tell them they are in Mortal Sin for Adoring God. Now he picks Confirmation to pander to illegal immigration! Pope Benedict, if this was a Vaudeville performance, please get the cane around this fool of the Church's neck! Please yank him off the stage!

 Mark

The parents of this Confirmation should count their blessings. All they had to suffer was the rantings of a pro-homosexual rights Bishop, steal their children's focus off of The Holy Spirit and on to himself. He feels the illegal immigrants pain. Not because he gives a rat's hair about the poor immigrant. He would donate one of those new million dollar mansions he bought for his very close friends, next to his new Cathedral, if that were the case. No our Bishop Brown wants people to equate persecution of homosexuals to that of immigrants. When Bishop Tod Brown was in Idaho, he made a fully packed Church of people, wait two hours in the sweltering heat, to Confirm their children. Do you know why he was late? Feeding the poor? Visiting the sick? Preaching the Gospel? No! He was golfing! Suffer the little children to come Unto Me!

john chrysostom

Bishop Brown's language is annoyingly "PC"; he loves to point out the ethnic "diversity" of Orange Catholics. This makes all the more interesting his first major public relations embarrassment as Bishop of Orange, the reaction to his closing of St. Isidore Church. A small, Hispanic parish mission of St. Hedwig Parish in Los Alamitos, St. Isidore's flavor was traditional and piety typical of the Hispanic community, in contrast with the ultra-modern (and Anglo) St. Hedwig's. Bishop Brown chose to consolidate St. Isidore with St. Hedwig's. St. Isidore parishioners protested, and pleaded with the Bishop to keep it open. Brown refused, finally in frustration suggesting they seek professional counseling to cope with his decision. Imagine the ultra politically correct Brown's response when, in turn, some of the group accused him of racism!

James

It's all about timing, timing, timing. Can anyone imagine during a wedding a priest deciding to talk about something way off topic, say immigration policy? The groom and bride would probably look at each other with a confused, annoyed look on their faces. During a time when soooooo many people think Confirmation, the Eucharist, Baptism, and the other sacraments are mere ritual symbols, devoid of any real spiritual reality, what a shame that wasn't the focus of the talk. I wonder what other Bishops were talking about yesterday...

Maximus

Perhaps Dubliner would like to come live in the Diocese of Orange sometimes, rather than amuse himself/themselves from afar.

I agree, in principle, with most of Bishop Brown's comments on immigration. However, he shouldn't have used these young Catholics' Confirmation as the occasion to launch into a divisive political issue where Catholics can disagree in good conscience regarding illegal immigration policy. Perhaps talking to them about Confirmation might have been more appropriate, don't you think Dubliner?

Brown said he used the Confirmation Mass as his perch "because it was the last scheduled address in which he would have the opportunity to discuss the subject before negotiations on the House and Senate versions of the bill."

Give me a break. The Bishop couldn't send out a press release or call a press conference? His only option was to turn a Confirmation Mass into a forum on illegal immigration?

I'm not buying.

JDM

So what's the deal here? It would be equally awkward for a politician to advertise his religious beliefs during his campaign speech. But why not?
Overall, it seemed it would have been more prudent to zip it on the politics during the confirmation ceremony. The poor bishop. He's got to much politics on the brain. I guess.
However, it just goes to show you how stressed out they are over these kind of community issues. Poor bishops.

Joseph D'Hippolito

I believe Brown's posturing is directly related to the whole controversy surroudning Eucharistic adoration at St. Mary's by the Sea. Lecturing about immigration during confirmation was his way of saying, "I'm still in charge of this diocese, regardless of what any of you might think." Regardless of his views, his timing was inappropriate for the occasion -- but not for his ambition and arrogance, which, apparently, are the only things that matter to him.

If you don't believe that, then ask yourselves this: Where was Brown in April during the massive protests concerning illegal immigration in Metropolitan Los Angeles? Nowhere to be seen, really, and I live in the area. So now he chooses to speak his peace while Mahony of Los Angeles is quiet?

Joseph D'Hippolito

BTW, fellow Orange County Catholics, this is another reason to hire a canon lawyer and initiate a class-action suit against Brown. Using the sacraments to discuss politics -- whether immigration, abortion or anything else -- is episcopal misfeasance at its worst. Such discussions necessarily connect the faith to narrow political stands that take the focus off of Christ.

Make note of all these incidents. It's time to tell our "shepherds" that they can't ride roughshod over the faithful any more.

What a load of HORSE MANURE. Since when DID bishop Brown of the LAVENDER ORANGE Concern himself with the rights of immigrants? Most if not all of the Catholic schools he have closed had mostly a immigrant/children of immigrants/Latino student body. Where was his compassion then? The only immigrants that he truly supports are the Vietnamese and that's because that's where the money is. Let us not forget about Our Lady of Lourdes Church

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/state/20030927-0005-ca-churchconflict.html

The Rainbow Sash and other Gay rights groups are banning together with the immigrants could this be the reason that Mahony and Brown are jumping on the band wagon?

PURE UNDILUTED HORSE MANURE!!!

Billy D

Why doesn't he just leave the Catholic church and sign up with one of the other denominations that favor his views? The Episcopalians, even some of the Baptist sects are in line with his thinking. Is it because then he wouldn't stand out so much and end up with a smaller audience? All about the ego, it seems. What a dope.

fedup

If Bishop Brown is going to express his political opinions in such a manner, dissenting Catholics should be able to express their disagreement. If I had been present at that mass, I would have walked out as soon as the comments were made, to express my disapproval.

Dubliner

Wow ! Now did that topic bring out all the crazies or what? Amazing how religion is nice and academic and out there - but let a bishop presume to have anything to say on a real issue and all hell breaks loose.
I agree that his timing was off but look at how successful it proved in terms of press coverage. We had a bishop here in Ireland - Bishop Jeremiah Newman of Limerick who frequently launched missiles during Confirmation Masses, the press came to expect them and always had coverage even in small remote rural villages. So its not a bad tactic.
What worries me is the level of reaction from the same side of the house that clamours for the bells and smells of Tridentine Liturgy - strange??
Like it or not Bishop Brown's authority is derived from his Apostolic succession - if you don't like that feel free to do what others have done in the past become a PROTEST-ant. If you simply want bishops to preach what you want to hear that's not catholocism.

Dubliner

Oh, in response to Maximus's invite to go and live there - Not on your life. The US is one screwed up society- abortion is rife - murder is commonplace - divorce abounds - the gun culture is frightening - and prejudice lurks even in people who claim otherwise! no thanks all the same Maximus. Our little Island is paradise by comparison; and we only have a handful of Mantilla Ladies to contend with - Bless Them !And our bishops are far less controversial figures. No Ireland has a lot to offer! Deo Gratias.

Joseph D'Hippolito

Dubliner, I'm curious. If I recall, Ireland was roiled by the clerical sex-abuse crisis as much as the U.S. was, if not more. And, if I recall, the Irish church was roiled by the scandal caused by the "laundries" run by nuns.

Did you provide the same kind of unquestioning, almost lemming-like support for Irish church authorities then as you are doing for U.S. church authorities now?

Joseph D'Hippolito

Here's another reason why Brown "preached" about immigration at a Confirmation Mass: Like Mahony in neighboring L.A., Brown is exploiting the immigration issue to revive his flagging standing as a "moral" leader. By addressing on such a hot-button issue, Brown hopes to divert attention from his tyrannical behavior during the recent mess concerning Eucharistic adoration -- just like Mahony is trying to divert attention from his malfeasance in the sex-abuse crisis.

Do not be fooled, especially you immigrants who might be reading this! Brown and Mahony will throw you under the bus w/o any compunction once you prove to be inconvenient to their personal ambition and posterior-covering.

Wendy

I live in L A County and on Pentecost Sunday the birthday of the church we had an extended homily to promote the capital campaigh to renovate the church and hall. I am getting to expect this which leaves me flat. Why spend 40 days in reflection on the Holy Spirit and then be asked for 10 million dollars on this great feast day? Makes me wonder if there is any reflection at all. It does not seem important to our leadership.

Dubliner

Joseph D'Hippoloto, you are correct, the Irish church has beeb ravaged by the sex abuse scandals. At present a government enquiry into the Dublin Diocese handling of allegations is underway. And yes the so called Magdalen Laundries have been the subject of much scrutiny and adverse publicity. Yes our bishops could be scapegoated and held up to ridicule - but for the msot part they are good men who simply did not know how to cope with such unspeakable deeds against children; we are all as guilty as they are since our society allowed these terrible acts to happen. Sexual abuse within families accounts for 98.9% of all abuse -Clericasl abuse for just 1.1%. We need solidarity now with our bishops as you seem to need in the US instead of baying for their heads on a platter.
Our retired Cardinal Connell (80) in Dublin, moved known abusers around - not to deliberately put more children at risk but because he didn't understand the pernicious and malevolent nature of pedophilia - I for one won't be shouting for his head on a plate. For God's sake pray for your bishops !

Joseph D'Hippolito

This is a test.

Joseph D'Hippolito

Our retired Cardinal Connell (80) in Dublin, moved known abusers around - not to deliberately put more children at risk but because he didn't understand the pernicious and malevolent nature of pedophilia.

Dubliner, with all due respect, you are incredibly naive, to put it diplomatically. It doesn't take somebody to fully understand the "pernicious and malevolent nature of pedophilia" not to move known abusers from parish to parish. It only takes somebody with the moral testosterone to say "no" to putting pedophiles in any situation in which they come in contact with children.

Connell should be hauled before Rome to be put on trial for episcopal malfeasance. So should Law, Mahony and any other archbishop who knowingly transferred pedophiles from place to place without either the knowledge or concent of the pastors and the faithful.

It is said that ignorance of the law is no excuse. I believe that extends to canon law, as well as civil and criminal law.

Often, Dubliner, compassion for those responsible for abetting evil is cruelty toward the innocent victims of that evil. It's high time that you and other Catholics who "protect" corrupt episcoparchs understand that.

James

I honestly think some of you have lost your minds. Joseph, you can't possibly think Bishop Brown did this to hide his tyrannical decisions on eucharistic adoration, do you? You're just really upset about it, but you don't really think that, right? If you think like that, you're completely unhinged on the issue. Imagine, the two issues might actually NOT be related. Unbelievable. Argue each point without seeing non-present connections.

Dubliner

Well I for one am glad that the it's the Lord who will judge me in the end and not my fellow Catholics !

Irish Mantilla

Yes Dubliner.. be relieved that Our Lord does the judging. You might get some slack cut for you due to multiple personality disorder!

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