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Saturday, June 03, 2006

Comments

Some Day

"It will be important for those present at such a meeting to be respectful, ask all the right questions, raise all the appropriate concerns, and carefully document all that transpires.

Let's all pray that things work out for the good of the Church and the parish"

So true.

First pray, I suggest the Litany of Humility by Cardinal Merry ( of the time of St.Pius X)

Recieve H. Communion before the meeting, you cant go wrong if you realize you have the Creator and Redeemer in you.

Then write a list of all the grievances.
But don't forget to right praises too!

You won't win if you make the Bishop feel all he does is wrong, then he'll just flame up in self-love and not help you a bit.

Diplomacy is a key. Think well of the Bishop's character. If he is as progressist as you claim he is, then maybe kissing his ring and kneeling (funny) before him isn't wise although correct. Maybe a hand shake with a sort of reverence ( lower head slightly but no kissing ring. Slightly.)
But if he loves being called your Excellency and people kissing his ring, then do it. Pretend he is millionare who will give you everything if you just treat him right.

And remember, enemies can fight hard and with ardor, yet they can still respect each other off the field and have a cup of tea.
He is still your spiritual father, more than a carnal father. His defects are his, but yours to help rid him of. You have to be a real devil to bark at someone while they come with a heart full of God.

Ask Mary for help, she can ask anything of God and He will give it to her. She wants the best for us, and just because the Bishop doesn't move an inch, it doesn't mean its a defeat. Our Lady just wants us to have Catholic valor and patience.

I promise you have my intentions for Communion on Sunday. In the Holy Eucharist we have everything, what can God deny us after such a gracious gift.

VENI SANCTE SPIRITUS

Joseph D'Hippolito

It should be noted that all this potential conciliation on the diocese's part came only and less than a week after the Los Angeles Times published a story about the whole mess.

So much for Cardinal Arinze's suggestion about keeping church problems "in house." It appears that only public pressure and perception will move the hierarchy. Just look at what happened after the Boston Globe reported on the clerical sex-abuse crisis.

The effectiveness of public exposure speaks more about the moral corruption of the hierarchy (at least in the U.S.) than perhaps any other fact.

Spiritual Enron in Lavender Diocese

Joseph I couldn't agree more. I think the only reason Bishop Brown showed up was if anyone from Rome contacted him about this lunacy,he would have to tell them when asked....When was the last time you went to this parish to say Mass or mingle or anything with these people? He wanted to be able to say he'd been there once before. You see Joseph, your right on the money. He has never been there. The bulletin had no retraction that is was mortal sin. Instead it talked about pride and arrogance. One of the parishioners even got down on her knees and begged him to allow the Tridentine Mass to return. I am sure he was repulsed and confused by her request. His response was a flat "No, its time to move forward!" Bishop Brown cares about two things, money, and the court of public opinion. It will be interesting to see if he follows through with meeting the Restore the Sacred people. Also it is important to tell you that Bishop Brown never addressed anything to the parishioners. He did say he had come to support Father Tran and say he was pleased with the job he is doing. I agree with the statement "Media Heat Drives Theology of the Diocese of Orange." The theology of this visit is the familiar **CYA** when in doubt. People are fed up with this nonsense! These leaders have taken the Diocese to a new low!

 Eileen

Does anyone think that Rome will care about this fiasco?

Dubliner

As one far removed from this nonsense I pray for all involved; particularly for Bishop Browne may the Lord fortify him!

 Eileen

How come Father Tran clarified it on the Diocesan Website but not to the people of his own parish? I think that is the pot calling the kettle black, regarding pride and arrogance!

 Tired of Fortified Wolves!

Whaaaaaaat! Dubliner wants fortification for Bishop Tod Brown. How about a good ol' Exorcism?

 Tired of Fortified Wolves!

I think Bishop Brown missed a golden opportunity to apologize for everything he has foisted on the faithful. He didn't apologize because that would interfere with his Progressive agenda. He has no intention of placing this evil agenda Genie, back into a bottle! Remember these actions work hand in hand with promoting homosexual domestic partnership. Inch by inch they have stripped reverence. They have gotten away with it, and now they have taken the Mortal sin mile with that inch. They are really exposed!

Dean

I think that Bishop Brown agreeing to meet with the parishoners at St. Mary's is an encouraging sign. The LA Times should be notified of this.

Joseph D'Hippolito

If the Restore the Sacred people or the parishioners of St. Mary's by the Sea receive no satisfaction, they should hire a canon lawyer, file a class action suit against the bishop and haul his sorry behind to Rome for a canonical trial.

If the faithful have to declare war against our "shepherds" to teach them not to be so tyrannical, then so be it! Tyranny is just another weapon in Satan's arsenal.

Tired of Battlefield Clutter!

Joseph that option is always on the table!

Tired of Battlefield Clutter!

Someone sent the Restore the Sacred group some wise advice. They said that the kneelers should tie rainbow sashes around their waist, then it won't be called mortal sin or rebellion. It will be called incredible heroism!!! Whats bad is good... and whats good (kneeling)is now bad!

Isabella of Spain

Iam curious what happened at St. Marys by The Sea on Saturday with Bishop Tod Brown? Maybe I will get a call from a friend to fill me in. I heard he never has been to St. Marys. I guess he just needed a front page invitation in a major newspaper!

Manuel Ruiz

I would give much credit to Bishop Brown if he had come to apologize instead of congratulating Fr. Martin Tran for doing a “good job” at St. Mary’s:

1. For the Liturgical violations in our parish and throughout the Diocese of Orange. (Bishop Brown favors changing the Rubrics yesterday he changed to “happy are all of us who are invited to this meal” Fr. Martin Tran is also known for changing the rubrics)

2. For sending into exile 55 families “with the permission of Bishop Brown you are officially invited to leave the parish and the Diocese” (I got a letter like that)

3. For Saying that kneeling after the Agnus Dei was a “mortal Sin”. (Even though they are trying to backpedal on this one. At the end is the same if you kneel in the Diocese of Orange after the Lamb of God is a mortal sin!)

4. For having suspended the altar boys' coordinator and altar boys for the newly discovered “sin of kneeling”

5. For having prohibited the “Sanctus bells” to be rung at the Sanctus and after the Lamb of God. (Of course that would invite people to kneel!)

6. For getting rid of the Crucifix on the altar.

7. For having extra ordinary ministers of Holy Communion against directives of Redemptionis Sacramentum 102. (No more than 10-15% of parishioners approach the cups with the Precious Blood)

8. For not allowing parishioners to use the Communion rail with the exception of 12 noon Novus Ordo Latin Mass and daily Masses (later on they will get rid of the Communion rail when no one uses it!)

9. For Fr. Martin Tran public statement that women should be priests! (I was present when he made that statement!)

10. Mass attendance has dropped to approximately 50% along with donations.

11. For forcing the shaking of hands after the sign of peace.

12. For forcing on to us the “musical” hymnals from Oregon Press. (With ugly & deceiving covers and full of horrible songs)and more.......

I wander which of the above “accomplishments” of Fr. Martin Tran made Bishop Brown the happiest.

Isabella of Spain

I say it is NUMBER 4! 'Goodbye Good Altarboys', the sequel to Michaels Roses book 'Goodbye Good men'

Donald

Well stated, Manuel...you have very succinctly summed up all of the issues of the "Restore the Sacred" group that works so hard EVERY Week to enlighten parishioners on the issues of St. Mary's and are a microcosm of the issues that the upcoming Bishop's Conference in Los Angeles SHOULD address...it's time we all got our reverential Church back...not just one parish...these brave soldiers of the Holy Spirit at St. Mary's should receive tremendous blessings for their efforts. Pray for them!

John

The cancer that has eaten at the heart of the Latin rite of the Roman Catholic church in the last 40 years since the council called vatican 2 are priests/presiders, bishops & Cardinals, men like Tod Brown, Roger Mahoney, Weakland, Lustiger,Daneel,Suenen,Bea and a multitude of clerics under the iron fist of Paul 6 and the laxness/permissive reign of John Paul 2 have given us a new order (novus ordo missae that is so Lutheranarian and protestant that even the eastern orthodox reel back at the sight of it. It is this Paul 6/Bugnini mass that has driven million from the Catholic church, never to return. End the Paul 6 bugnini service now & return to the 1700yr old Divine liturgy of St. Peter and begin the healing & stop the abuses that occur daily in the so-called new/reformed/masonic rite of Paul 6 now.------Shalom Pacem

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