My Photo

Insight Scoop

Catholic World News Top Headlines (CWNews.com)

The Curt Jester

JIMMY AKIN.ORG

Poor Box

Render Unto Us

Tip Jar
Blog powered by Typepad

« Bishop Brown's Empire Strikes Back: No Tridentine For You! | Main | FOX News' Fr. Jonathan Morris: Did the Pope Apologize? »

Tuesday, September 19, 2006

Comments

David

In his homily this past weekend, our priest said that faith without works is dead AND works without faith is also dead.

I think the natural expression of strong faith is a desire to do service. The service itself can take many forms, social justice being one of many, many vocations.

As you implied above, service without the love of Christ in our hearts may even do more damage. And so each of us needs to grow that love through all the means available to us.

I think of it as walking. As we place our left foot forward, we seek to bring Christ more fully into our hearts and then, as we move our right foot forward we express that love through works to our brothers and sisters. If we do this, we will be "walking humbly with our God" (Micah).

Paul

Our son attended St. Michaels Prep in Orange County...a wonderful alternative for people who are of a more orthodox bent. I hope the Bishop doesn't get his hands on it and try to change it to his way of thinking...

Beeline

http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/abbott/060914

I am in complete agreement with the Bishops letter. I have noticed that since the Bishop acquiesced and allowed the Protesters to faithfully continue in their own collective Mass postures that the Protest Flyers have stopped and 'Restore the Sacred --at St. Mary's' seems ?? to be a thing of the past??. Also, to take note, that his allowance for violationg his norms was granted to the protesters but not to people who were not protesting, they are held to the Diocesean liturgical norm.

Like I said all along and got criticized for, this was as much about 'laity liturgicul preference and demands' more so than anything else. Had the changes been instituted to bring the parish back from 25 years of seclusion been instituted by a more repected bishop you wouldn't have seen the 'stink' that erupted nationally brought about by this group.

My moral of the story: Obey the Bishop in licit manners no matter what you think of him! ...and I dont think very highly of Bishop Brown for many reasons, but valid liturgical norms of all things dont even enter the equation!

Any comments?

Michael Teissere

A "respected" Bishop would not have done what Bishop Brown has done to St. Mary's by the Sea, infact a "respected" Bishop wouldn't allow my cousin Fr. Rod Stephens to destroy the Mass and church buildings in the Diocese of Orange! Bishop Brown knows exactly what he is doing. His agenda is to destroy what is left of the Catholic Faith in the Diocese. Yep ! these are harsh words for some to accept , but I will stand by them.I have encountered his Excellency up close and personal! He allows families to be destroyed by false teachings!! Good night!

james rich

I can not agree with your recommendation that parishioners withhold their tithes because of this; nor do I think Catholic Answers would go along with that recommendation.

 Mark

Once again Beeline is not aware of what is going on at St. Mary's. Restore the Sacred passed out flyers last week. Beeline has been critical of everything because of lack of courage. We forgive Beeline for sitting on the sidelines and armchair quarterbacking false information. Let us know if you are interested in getting a copy of last week's flyer, that you falsely claim knowledge about. Envy is very destructive when it is based on fear. Pray for the conversion of Bishop Brown and Beelines conversion to love and have courage. Just letting people know that you don't think highly of the Bishop is validating that lack of courage. That is a drive by criticism that showed no interest in talking with Bishop Brown about the problems. Just attacks on good parishioners who did and have the support of many families. You sadly seem to enjoy offending people. That is not a charitable trait.

Thomistic

I did not recommend that parishioners withhold their tithes "because of this". In fact, I did not "recommend that parishioners withhold their tithes" at all.

I explicitly said: "It's good to put money in the collection basket to keep the lights on at your local parish."

My intention was to inform people that only a small percentage of what goes in the collection basket is earmarked for the poor. If giving to the poor is the intention of the giver, the collection basket doesn't get as much bang for your buck.

Pax,

Thomistic

James

I suppose I never understood that my weekly/monthly tithe/offering was intended for the poor, but for the maintenance of the parish and diocese: music, maintenance, insurance, salaries, utilities, et cetera. In fact, most parishes I've been to have said they recommend offering 5% of your income to the parish and 5% to a worthy private charity. (Obviously you can do more or less as you want or feel led.) I can see I did not make this clear. But my overall point stays the same.

cassandra

Does it seem to anyone else that the "social justice" thing is a red herring? My parish went around and around with it, and I don't think the committee ever figured out what on earth they were going to *do* in the way of social justice but they did talk about it a lot.

Their social justic efforts always seem to leave off sometime in May, then pick up again in Sept, because in summer people go to the lake and all that you know.

Angela

James - always remember: 10% of every nickel that gets put in the basket on Sunday goes straight to the bishop - to support him and his lifestyle(including retreats to Alaska, Hawaii, Rome, this year alone- while he closes schools and throws retired priests out on the street);his homosexual chancery office (per Fr. Fenton - media spokesman for the Diocese of Orange); and who knows how much this "Pastoral Pablum" cost us?

Does Bishop Brown actually think HE has something SPIRITUAL to offer the Catholics of the Diocese of Orange? After the disasters and abuses that have occurred here under his watch?

Besids, there IS NO teaching in this document! (But Fr. Martin Tran, the very well educated (according to the diocese) and completely ignorant (of all things Magisterial) tells us, "It must be obeyed. If it comes from the Bishop, it must be obeyed." -- We'll be getting hit with another Mortal Sin letter soon, watch out!

It's protestant theology through and through. Love,Peace and (Social)Justice, Love, Peace and (Social)Justice, Love,Peace and (Social)Justice - It's their mantra!

Give your money to St. Vincent de Paul or the Carmelite Sisters in Alhambra,to physically and spiritually feed the TRULY hungry. Or send it to Bishop Burke or Bishop Bruskewitz - who have dozens in seminary (we ordained 2 or 3 this year) Let the Bishop and his homosexual priests go without - a little fasting might do them all some good.

James

Angela, it is your moral responsibility to support your parish and diocese AND bishop--when he is performing the duties for which he is duly responsible. You ere greatly in refusing this responsibility. If you question this, simply call St. Vincent de Paul or the Carmelite Sisters (or Catholic Answers, for that matter) and ask them if they think it is a good idea to stop giving your money to the diocese in favor of them. If they say no, will you believe them...or are you right no matter what? I'm trying to say this gently. You have to separate your feelings for the man from his duly ordained position. I do, by the way, think there is huge latitude in this matter. I do think you can cut back your giving in good conscience; but entirely stopping for no good financial reason is questionable. Can you imagine if they (priests and bishops) refused to serve us on the same grounds as we give about them? No one would do anything for anyone.

Do I think Bishop Brown has anything spiritual to offer the Diocese of Orange? Absolutely. Even if he were the worst imaginable Bishop, he still would contibute something spiritual to the Diocese as the duly ordained shepherd. The grace/chrism of his office most certainly profit us, even if he ended up being damned for his sins. God and His grace supercede any bishop's strengths or inadecuacies...but he has chosen to use him--and he will not break faith with us.

Another side point. Many of the supposed abuses I think you may be refering to did not "happen under his watch," but under the watch of his predecessor(s). Would you hold him responsible for things that happened while he was in another state? I love and respect Bishop Mac, but where is your condemnation and criticisms of him? Have there been failings? Absolutely...but that is besides my point, so I'll just end here.

Mark

James,
I understand everything you said. It all makes sense. What also makes sense is to warn the faithful that Bishop Tod Brown sent out a memo supporting homosexual domestic partnership to all the priests in the Diocese of Orange. This sent a clear message to priests that their leading Shepherd was no longer in union with Rome. How do you feel this affects their ability to teach sound Catholic teaching on morality? Yes we respect the office but we should be made aware of this. We need to be on guard of the promoting of false teachings. We can pray for his conversion. A very good and respected priest said that we should be praying daily to God to either convert Bishop Tod Brown or remove him. Sad to say that it can also be stated that maybe we have the Bishop that we deserve.

James

Mark,
Standing up to the bishop about this is vital--and I'm taking your word it is true. I've never said anything contrary to this. We must be aware, however, that refusing to tithe is not an effective or appropriate way to dissent, any more than a father is correct by withholding money and food and care to his children for their misbehavior. Some things are morally mandated and can not be held over others' head. We are morally obligated to support our parish and diocese, although anything additional to that can be withheld. For example, food and shelter are required by parents for their children, but not ipods and the other non-necessities. That's all I'm saying. Be bold for the truth without sinning.

 Mark

James a recent article in the San Diego Tribune shows ex priest Rod Stephens, (who only left the priesthood because the laity let Bishop Brown know that they were aware of Father Stephens living with his partner while under Bishop Brown's authority)hugging the newly ordained woman priestess. Bishop Brown is fully aware of his continued lifestyle, yet he recently gave Rod Stephens permission in an Irvine Catholic Church bulletin, to do design work. These are the behind the scene destructions that continue with Bishop Brown's blessing. Supporting homosexual domestic partnership, supporting ex priest Rod Stephens by allowing him to design Sanctuaries and churches while he lives with his partner and supports womens ordination in newspaper articles. Bishop Brown is clearly on his own mission and agenda. The faithful need to be in touch with their Catholic Catechism on a regular basis.

James

Mark, I want to say that I appreciate your feedback and this site. However, you said something that immediately catches my attention. You said that Ft. Rod Stephens was acting out "under Bishop Brown's authority." Well, Mark, his actions under Bishop Brown's authority is quite different than under Bishop Brown's approval or knowledge. It is an egregious statement on your part to say this, because it means absolutely nothing. An employee stealing from his owner-boss is working under this owner-boss's authority, although the owner-boss would surely NOT agree with this employee's actions. Are you really ready to make supervisors responsible for the actions of those under their authority? I doubt you'd accept the consequences and guilt of the actions of those under you. So, for example, if one of your kids kills someone I'm sure you'll accept going to jail. If you have personal knowledge of Bishop Brown's complicity, then you should notify the proper authorities. I doubt--though I don't know--Rome believes Bishop Brown is complicit.

Maybe Bishop Brown should have known what Ft. Stevens was up to, but this is quite different than saying he approved of it. It's what I've always noticed with people who are partisan--they tend to get carried away in their anger. There is plenty, apparently, to dislike Bishop Brown for, but don't create things that aren't true on top of it all.

Angela

James,
Bishop Brown is promoting Fr. Stephen's actions. "Promoting". He continues to allow this homosexual ex priest to be hired by the diocese, recommended by the diocese, PAID by the diocese and the parishes within the diocese.

You don't see that as being complicit?

Pope Felix -
"Not to OPPOSE error is to approve of it"

 Mark

Yes James it would be egregious to say that if it were not for the fact that Father Stephens told his relatives that Bishop Brown was not only aware of his lifestyle, but that Bishop Brown as well as Cardinal Mahony, approved of it and think it is fine. James there were witnesses to the conversation held with Father Stephens at Holy family Church. Three witnesses watched as relatives pleaded with then Father Stephens to stop his lifestyle. They did this on the spiritual direction of their priest to go to Father Stephens personally. Bishop Brown not only has authority he also gave his approval. Remember that Bishop Brown sent out the memo supporting homosexual domestic partnership to all of the priests in the Diocese of Orange. Please connect the dots of dissention.

Susan Teissere

After reading comments in here I feel I have to say this! Mark, perhaps James has connected the dots but he lacks the moral courage to speak out about the corruption taking place in the diocese of Orange. Maybe James feels he will lose friends that work for Bishop Brown or those friends he has have their head burried in the sand about the corruption. Maybe James himself works for Bishop Brown and approves of Fr. Rod Stephens and Bishop Browns agenda to destroy the Catholic Church in the Diocese of Orange. Frankly I can't understand James reasoning, but then again that is why the Church is in the state it is ,ecspecially in the United States. No offense to James , just my thoughts on his comments! Oh by the way James! I was there when Bishop told my husband Michael and I that he ( Bishop Brown) did approve of Fr. Rod Stephens( my husbands cousin) work in the Diocese of Orange. Also Bishop Brown said "he dosen't have any responsibility of priests after 5pm. He said that comment very flipantly! Our meetings( back in 2002) with Bishop Brown were very stressful and infact got hostile ! Bishop Brown pounding his fists on the table we were sitting at and his priest secretary at the time Fr. Michael Mckierran jumping from his chair to try to strike me, to my relief, his excellency held him back with his arm, I guess Bishop Brown didn't want another court apperance if you know what I mean! My husband and I don't trust Bishop Brown at all, infact we are certain he is out of control and on a one track to destroy the Catholic faith in the diocese of Orange. We pray that his Excellency converts or is removed from his see. That will allow him to spend time contemplating what he has done and repent ! Maybe then we will get the letter of apology from his Excellency to my husbands family and to the laity of the diocese for the heretical teachings and apostate actions of especialy Fr. Rod Stephens, but also what he Bishop Brown has done and allowed of other priests and laity in positions of authority under his watch!

The comments to this entry are closed.

Pope Benedict XVI Homilies & Statements

Codex of Catholic Blogs

Orthodox Blogs

Blogs From People We Wish Were Catholic