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« Roger Cardinal Mahony's "Friends & Lovers" | Main | While Anglicans Scramble To Return To Orthodoxy, Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor Upsets Orthodox Catholics With "Gay" Masses »

Monday, February 19, 2007


Some Day

I imagine they reordained the priests since they lost apostolic succession years ago.


It would be cool if we worked a trade; Gay, dissenting clergy for their solid, married, faithful clergy.

Perhaps we could do it at the tower where Thomas Moore was kept, kind of symbolic like, akin to a spytrade at the berlin wall pre-collapse of the iron curtain.

Didn't Roy Orbison sing a song about 'only in dreams?'


I can almost see St Thomas More with his head re-attached!!
This possibility makes me very happy because 1) I am a More fan, though definitely not a fan of Thomas MOORE,(:)) and 2)This split has been hurting the Body of Christ for a long time.

Some Day

what does # 1 mean?

Anybody watch the movie "a man of all seasons"
Good movie.
Nice music.


While a reunion would be great news, I wouldn't be surprised if a substantial part of the Anglicans wouldn't accept it. Such a situation wouldn't be unique: on several occasions the Eastern orthodox hierarchy (or the Byzantine emperor) pledged the return of the orthodox church to the fold, only to be rejected or ignored by the people. After several centuries of animosity and cultures that grow apart, reunion is not an easy matter. The fact that both sides have their problems with enforcing doctrinal discipline won't help either.

Then again, it almost sounds like a miracle that Caterbury would even consider to go so far, so maybe a second miracle is not too much to hope for....


Thomas More is a saint. Thomas Moore is a popular author/theologian who looks at spirituality through the lens of mythology, much like Joseph Campbell.
Years ago, I came across a Moore book and thought (not knowing the difference in spelling) that it was newly discovered text from the saint! Had i not mistaken Moore's identity, I may have been more open to "Care of the Soul" etc, but because I have great respect for Thomas More and a "soft-spot" for his writings, Moore didn't appeal to me. I don't care for mythology, anyhow--it has always made me edgy to study 'goddesses' and 'gods'...

A Simple Sinner

As heartening as it is to read about, I am very curious to read this actual statement and would be VERY curious to know how strong the desire is on the part of either party to see an actual full communion (as proposed) through.

I know that there has been talk for years on the part of members (some of) the Traditional (Continuing) Anglican bodies to seek raproachment with Rome and achieve communion. (see: Traditional Anglican Communion seeks unity with Rome) But how genuine is the motivation and how strong is the impetus?

I also get the impression that groups like this sometimes come to Rome offering their terms... and believe and suspect that many approach and leave disappointed by some of the demands that are made.

I think there is a three fold issue of the could, the would and the should.

Could Rome create an "Anglican-Rite" sui juris church? Of course.

Would Rome create an "Anglican-Rite" sui juris church? It does not seem terribly likely...

Should Rome create an "Anglican-Rite" sui juris church?

I think if the original intent is simply to go under the omophor of Roman Protection to preserve a certain tradition while parting ways with the Abp. of Canterbury (whose exact leadership role in TAC is ambiguous and sometimes tenuous) well there will be problems. As children from divorced homes sometimes find out, moving to dad's house because you don't like mom's rules sometimes just leaves you with new rules you may find objectionable.

But I can't judge the hearts and minds of those who make these suggestions and I don't propose to do so. But one is left to wonder, is the impetus behind such a move a true appreciation and recognition of the need for Papal ministry? One could easily argue that the past half century in TAC has lead lead thousands of individual clery and laymen to understand, appreciate and seek a home with Rome... So it could be possible that whole diocese and provinces, seeing the writing on the wall in the global North/South split of TAC to recognize Newman and his many convert bretheren through the centuries were unto something....

While Rome has ordained or incardinated priests from outside the Catholic world before who were married, and has even allowed for some communities to celebrate an Anglican Use Mass, in the past it has been cool to the idea or proposals of a self-governing Western Rite community. But then again, there has been talk for a decade of creating a personal prelature for Catholics who prefer the Tridentine Mass the same way a personal prelature was created for Opus Dei or papal orders such as Jesuits enjoy certain levels of autonomy in their community outside of the local ordinary...

Any thoughts or ideas?

Anyone think that this will move forward to a point of a full communion between whole Anglican provinces and Rome?

Convert clergy, in my experience, be they former Protestants, Anglicans or Orthodox who become priests or deacons, certainly do demonstrate a great deal of zeal and love for Catholic orthodoxy. Could or would such a communion lead to a notable infusion of pro-Papal, orthodox Catholics around the world?

On the issue of married clergy, if Rome were to apply a pastoral provision for the clergy for one generation, do you think that would be a deal killer?

What if Rome offered a plan that would allow for the use of an Anglican Rite inside Roman diocese, but not seperate Churches for former Ang. provinces?

What if Rome accepted the churches into a communion with a plan for integration into existing Roman diocese?

Would sub conditione ordination or outright reordinaiton prove a stumbling block?

Among the possible petioning parties, would there be enough unity of theology shared concepts of ecclesiology to deal with Rome in the fashion of a united front?

Some criticize Rome for raising the bar too high. Others (like myself) think that some opportunities have been missed along the way. (In England over a thousand applications were made on the part of Anglican clergy after the decision to ordain women as priests was imposed. Some Diocese like Liverpool did not accept a single applicant. I have a hard time believing that not one applicant in Liverpool was a qualified candidate!)

I am not really trying to take it upon myself or this forum to judge how to balance "That all may be one" against Roman wisdom on the Office of St. Peter, or even the intent of people that present themselves as seekers... I am content to abide with Rome's decisions and do not second guess them for I am little more than a simple sinner. But certainly this sort of thing is interesting.


According to,
we've jumped the gun a bit, here. Even so, isn't it good that so many people look FORWARD to ecumenical dialog and eventual reconciliation?


Unfortunately, the story is a fraud, an example of just how silly the Times can be on the subject of religion. The document in question is simply one in the string of continuing dialogues.
For more info:

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