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Tuesday, August 28, 2007


Atlanta Catholic


You have outdone yourself in demonstrating the sad state of affairs in the Diocese of Orange, California. The blood sucking apparatus of Bishop Tod Brown continues the assault on the life blood of the Catholic Church. The bite marks are aimed towards the necks of Traditional Catholicism. What is as threatening as the sunlight to Bishop Tod D. Brown? Authentic Church Teaching... Reverence...Respect for the Real Presence...and the Tridentine Mass which seems to anger bad Bishops as much as a Crucifix repels Dracula. How interesting a fact is it that progressive Bishops don't like the Crucifix either. There are no accidents. The comparison is astoundingly accurate.

In the movie,"Becket", the story of St. Thomas a Becket, the saint, played by Richard Burton, tells those who want to silence his revelations and loud protests of corrupt priests and bishops, that "The Kingdom of God is like any kingdom, and must be defended." He did not stop defending his Faith and was martyred.


I agree with your exhortations Thomisitic, but what is your call to action? You are stirring up the righteous passion of all orthodox Catholics who read your blog, but to what end can we focus our passion? If you have no viable suggested action then you risk allowing our righteous anger to fester into bitterness and pessimism. Do you have any ideas, any hopeful suggestions for those sheep suffering under wayward bishops? The world is full of complainers, it is only those who are willing to take action who can effect change.


What we all must do is pray to the Immaculata that she ask Her Divine Son to chase the demons from the hearts of those bishops and priests who oppose Her Son's Will.
This is how we can actively work to allow God's Will to be done, and avoid pessimism and bitterness.
St Maximilian Kolbe pray for our bishops.
God bless you


I would suggest writing a charitable letter that details the things you believe to be problematic to the Holy See, as well as the Ecclesia Dei commission.




I had my wedding at St. Mary's earlier this year. I also attended a Mass before my marriage. I saw people kneeling to receive Communion, but did not see the priest deny or correct or have any problem with the kneeling parishioners.

About half of the parishioners kneeled during the "This is the Lamb of God" (Agnus Dei?), while the others stood. It was a horrible moment to see and be a part of.

If we can't get the kneeling issue squared away, is there any wonder that we can't figure out abortion, homosexual marriage, stem cell research, and other such issues?

I was hoping this whole saga would come to an end with the M.P. by the Pope--I wrote as much some weeks ago. I see I was wrong, and that some people want to make this an ongoing issue...or at least that what it seems to be.

I'm willing to wait and see what happens when Father Tran comes back, however.

If this is all vindictive behavior, I can't see any scenario in which St. Mary's will be around in the future: that's probably the surest way to ensure no Tridentine Mass ever again.

TM Lutas

If a bishop is violating the rules of the Church, be very certain of it and then be or support the courageous person who shall be the test case that will end the abuse.

I cannot emphasize enough that the bulk of the effort must be in determining whether there is an actual abuse instead of an uncomfortable, fringe position that is barely within the range of what is legitimate. The problem of a legitimate fringe bishop can only be solved by the appointment of a better successor and in the meantime a project of engagement and education with said bishop in order to promote growth in Christ and more effective pastoral care.

With regard to Fr. Tran, he has the choice to be the test case, if Bishop Brown wishes to push things. If the TLM is ended by Brown's orders and Fr. Tran continues in obedience to Christ and following the guidelines of the recent Motu Proprio, a perfect test case will have been created. Fr. Trans' career as a priest will be very difficult for a time until the common sense understanding that administrators' authority to act as a pastor includes the ability to take advantage of the provisions for pastors in the motu proprio is settled definitively but that's part of the job.

Pray for the test cases, those willing to stand up to bad bishops properly, protected only by the Holy Spirit. Pray for the fools who stand up to bishops when they shouldn't, that they grow in wisdom and learn that obedience isn't always comfortable.


Why don't the parishioners at St. Mary's bring in a priest to say the extra ordinary form of the Holy Sacrifice of The Mass. Bishop Brown must provide one whether Fr. Tran is pastor or not, here or in Vietnam. I would make a complaint to the Ecclesia Dei commision if Bishop Brown doesn't provide a priest on Sept 14th!


Thomistic, I am a bit baffled. The title of this post is: It's Time To Speak The Truth: Bad Catholic Bishops Exist, And Their Efforts Need To Be Opposed

Why now?

What I mean is, so Bishop Brown has a problem with the relaxation of the Tridentine mass, and fights against Orthodox Catholics at St. Mary's By the Sea.

I am not from the area, but have followed some of the events on this blog (which spends an awful lot of time on SoCal issues, which is fine , due to this being your area and blog, but there are so many more, with similar problems) but I cannot figure out what the straw is that broke the camel's back that would have you write the title you did.

I have said things less harshly, and had a bunch of orthdox on this blog come down on my heavily. If you recall, LoyolaLaw came down on me for saying that a particular bishop was probably another homosexual (as evidence probably points to it.)

I am glad you said it, but just surprised, in the face of all of the things which are much worse (homosexual abuse scandals, gross monetary improprieties, sacramental and liturgical abuse) that the bishops problems with the Tridentine Mass is what finally set you off.

BTW, had this been my blog, I would not have practiced the patience you have. I would have stated this long ago. Kudos to you nonetheless and yes, I know I have a temper, but I am sick to death of people biting their tongues in order to act or appear to be pious. It has been to the detriment of our Church.

By the way, praying is great, but action is what will change the problem. See my post on Per Christum Blog regarding this same issue and the Catholic failure in the conversion of Islam in light of the Protestant successes. The post is called Mary and Islam, from a few days ago. The points are relative.

However, it seems like you have refrained from saying this, and it should have been said a long time ago, for reasons much more serious.

This is the kind of title that searches will turn up and you are correct; It is necessary.



I tried to use that link, but I couldn't get it to work. Are you sure it is correct?


Thomistic wrote:

Bishop Brown continues to support Rod Stephens and allows his priests to pay him handsomely (reportedly $300 an hour) for his consultation work in church decoration, renovations, and/or liturgical consultation...

That's great, now we have "gay" interior decorators for the churches. What's next, Edith Piaf tunes for the communion procession?

Curtis wrote:

The world is full of complainers, it is only those who are willing to take action who can effect change.

I think the point to this blog is to be informed and to not be led astray. Change will come. To quote a good priest, who is suffering under one of the afore mentioned bishops, "God will send us saints."

Jimbo wrote:

I was hoping this whole saga would come to an end with the M.P. by the Pope--I wrote as much some weeks ago.

It's going to take some time for things to get better. But, with the M.P., the cat is out of the bag, and he's in no mood to be put back in.

Dude wrote:

...I know I have a temper, but I am sick to death of people biting their tongues...

I seem to remember a certain nun, with a worldwide television audience, who called a certain cardinal a heretic. I still say "good for her."


I've been to St. Mary's.
The parishioneer crew over there were pretty militant with their flyers , accusations,and in-church liturgical protests...but eventually made some peace with the Bishop, but not before accusing Fr. Tran of financial improprieties and demanding that he too be replaced. Much of this was way over the top.....and consistent with militant protest organizations where the end
justifies the means. I find neither side 100% honorable nor honest. Morever, Bishop Brown is one of the worst Bishops in America along with Mahoney. I trust Brown about as far as I can throw a refrigerator....that being said, his dealings with St. Mary have been within his jurisdictional powers of liturgical and disciplinary powers. However, the Motu Propio issues bring us to another chapter.

So you have to wonder whether it is Bishop Browns motive to close St. Marys in the long run or just a case that he will give no 'quarter' to the parishioneers of St. Marys who staged protests over their desire for a 'customized' Novus Ordo Mass, and proverbially spat in the face of legitimate authority.

Atlanta Catholic

Coffee Mug Philosophy,

Your statement of "I find neither side 100% honest or honorable", is disappointing and revealing. Father Johnson was an excellent spiritual priest. Father Johnson never said a word of criticism or gossip about any person, priest, Bishop, Cardinal and so on.
Many people were critical of Father Johnson and he knew it. He did not waiver to please people. He was only interested in pleasing God. Father Johnson was holy. Father Johnson thanked the parishioners who had the difficult and painful responsibility of standing up for their rights as Catholics.
Bishop Brown admitted in a meeting that the parishioners were within their rights to kneel if their consciences deemed. This is a fact.
Your conscience is comfortable criticizing both sides. This is what is revealing. It is very comfortable to judge the actions and hearts of others. Jesus spoke about being lukewarm. Criticisms robed in lukewarm fear are not attractive qualities.

No one ever disputed Bishop Brown's authority. You must familiarize yourself with the rights and duties of a Catholic. When Bishop Brown "did" admit that Catholics did have a right to kneel if their consciences deemed, it was a good thing to stand up for. Would you agree with this if you learned it was true? It is true. I'm glad that you admit you are unable to throw a refrigerator the same distance as your trust of Bishop Brown. How are you any different by just criticizing the Bishop and the crew? I do feel your frustration with the situation. Sometimes when a person lacks the strength or courage to stand up against injustice, they hurl comments or opinions against both sides. This is telltale, but they do it because it salves their conscience. They would like to take some action besides prayer but they are fearful. Attacking both sides to different audiences, makes them chameleon-like. This gives them a very brief measure of comfort. I don't know if you are in this category. Only God knows your heart. I don't think you are able to read hearts but it sounds like you think you possess this ability. You need to place your heart and Coffee Mug into the hot or cold. You find neither side honorable Coffee Mug. That is not a good sign.


No wonder why the church is in a mess! All these coffe mug philosophy types in the church, critizing Catholics who are willing to battle evil. The Holy Father just recently spoke about battling evil this blog should do a post on the Holy Fathers statement. The Holy Father said "Christ is not looking for tired conformists, but witnesses of courageous faith, those who burn in the fire of His love." I found the Holy Fathers words confirming in defending The Faith. Why be a Catholic then if you aren't willing to give your life and reputation for The Church. You are just waisting your time. Perhaps you should go to your local coffee house and fill up your mug. Don't get me wrong Coffee Mug , wake up ! before it is too late. You might find your self on the liturgical dance commitee someday or dressed up as Don
Fransico the coffee man at a "halloween mass". If you don't like my comment or think I was been rude too you well, why don't you use a real name like Joe or Tom. People wouldn't be tempted to use "coffee mug" jokes.


Patrick, cut and paste, I just did and it worked fine.


Atlanta? Catholic and Suzanne I stand by my words.

Funny how you people want to psychoanalayze
and read into verbiage when someone disagrees with you. I am talking about picking apart my sentences and reading my personality those words. Very immature.

Sort of how the seminaries dealt with straight and orthodox seminarians who they
wanted to get rid of.. Sent them to the psychologist and told the psychologist the
outcome they wanted or suspected.

Atlanta Catholic and Suzanne, when I talk about a movement or group and its actions,
you shouldnt take it so personally as to be ungatious and insulting to an individual.

Once again I stand by what I have witnessed and perceived at St. Marys regardless of their 'noble pursuits' I call it as I sees it.....and thats the way I SEES it!



Why did you stop going by the name Beeline?




Beeline changed name to coffeeMugPhilosophy because you banned Beeline when he started insulting other bloggers. Beeline is a troll!

Where can I see a copy of the MP?


If Juan Valdez starts posting comments we will know which IP address to check. CoffeeMug, it looks like your cup runneth over. Sorry, I couldn't resist :o)


Also, watch out for Mrs. Olsen.


Why are you people flipping out on this coffee mug person? Defending a priest you believe is holy is honorable, but if he is holy he does not want you to tear people apart for his sake. That's no way to honor a priest or any person of faith.


MP and all related documents are available in English on the blog, look in the right column for links to the documents.

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