The Enemy Within.

TESTING THE FAITH

Bishop urges Christians to call God 'Allah'

Catholic leader believes it would help ease tensions between religions

Posted: August 15, 2007

3:28 p.m. Eastern

© 2007 WorldNetDaily.com

Catholic churches in the Netherlands should use the name Allah for God to ease tensions between Muslims and Christians, says a Dutch bishop.

Tiny Muskens, the bishop of Breda, told the Dutch TV program "Network" Monday night he believes God doesn't mind what he is called, Radio Netherlands Worldwide reported.

The Almighty is above such "discussion and bickering," he insisted. Muskens points to Indonesia, where he served 30 years ago, as an example for Dutch churches. Christians in the Middle Eastalso use the term Allah for God.

"Someone like me has prayed to Allah yang maha kuasa (Almighty God) for eight years in Indonesia and other priests for 20 or 30 years," Muskens said. "In the heart of the Eucharist, God is called Allah over there, so why can't we start doing that together?"

Muskens thinks it could take another 100 years, but eventually the name Allah will be used by Dutch churches, promoting rapprochement between the two religions, he said, according to Radio Netherlands.

However, a survey published today in the Netherlands' largest newspaper, De Telegraaf, showed 92 percent of the more than 4,000 people polled oppose the bishop's view, the Associated Press reported.

Some letters to the paper were filled with ridicule for the bishop.

"Sure. Lets call God Allah. Lets then call a church a mosque and pray five times a day. Ramadan sounds like fun," wrote Welmoet Koppenhol.

The chairman of the Protestant Church in the Netherlands, Gerrit de Fijter, told the Dutch paper he welcomed any attempt to "create more dialogue," according to the AP. But he said, "Calling God 'Allah' does no justice to Western identity. I see no benefit in it."

A Muslim spokesman, for Amsterdam's union of Moroccan mosques, said Muslims had not asked for such a gesture from Christians, the AP reported.

Tensions with the Netherlands' 1-million-strong Muslim community have been high since the 2004 murder of filmmaker Theo Van Gogh by a Muslim avenging a film critical of Islam.

Last week, politician Geert Wilders talked about banning the Quran, shortly after the head of a group of former Muslims, Ehsan Jami, compared Islam's prophet Muhammad with al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden.

Muskens made similar remarks several year ago about using the name of Allah, Radio Netherlands reported. He also suggested replacing the national Christian holiday Whit Monday – celebrated the day after Pentecost – with an Islamic religious day.

The bishop also has offended Muslims, saying in 2005 Islam was a religion without a future because it has too many violent aspects.

END

_________________________

Upon reading these statements from a "shepherd" in Holy Mother Church - I can only say...

Our Lady of Lepanto & Santiago DeCompostela - Pray For Us!

Comments

[witchunter]

Tiny ideas come from Tiny minds.

[Patrick]

What an idiot.

[Atlanta Catholic]

Is there any chance that he was wacked in the head by a windmill while tiptoeing through the tulips?

[Thomistic]

Sad. Let's all pray for Bishop Tiny.

Pax,

Thomistic

[joanne]

I wonder if it occurred to the bishop that if we did call God Allah but continued to worship according to our Faith, the Muslims extremists would call us blasphemers and kill us all in Allah's name.

[carlos]

Thank God that this guy is retiring this year. Don't let the door hit you in the behind, Excellency.

[Lisa Noonan]

I was so mindblown when I posted it, I went to school, came back, and remained speechless. Therefore, I have posted no comment on this because the thought of this drivel makes me numb.

A good thing to come out of this article? Even the Protestants are scratching their heads.

[Chuck Evans]

Why should we change from calling Our Heavenly Father GOD, because of what a Bishops says??? Give us a break!!

[Donald]

I read this yesterday...is it any wonder why the hierarchy of the Catholic Church is under such scrutiny? His comments are not only beyond absurd, they are cowardly.

[Debbie]

Why does the Roman Catholic Church allow a man with such beliefs to be their Bishop and teach false doctrine? This man obviously is a false prophet, does not know God or believe God's word when He told Moses "I AM", please someone in charge remove this man from his position now, not wait until he retires because of their religious politics. Why do we tolerate such Pharisees?

[Rarakiroa]

Re: Debbie's post above

I'd like to know the same thing. Can someone explain to me why the folks at the Vatican let heterodox bishops remain in charge of dioceses (sp?). Maybe I'm just not understanding something about how the Church hierarchy is set up or what it means to be a bishop. I'd sure appreciate it if someone could educate me on this or at least point me to a source that can. Thanks.

[Rarakiroa]

Re: Debbie's post above

I'd like to know the same thing. Can someone explain to me why the folks at the Vatican let heterodox bishops remain in charge of dioceses (sp?). Maybe I'm just not understanding something about how the Church hierarchy is set up or what it means to be a bishop. I'd sure appreciate it if someone could educate me on this or at least point me to a source that can. Thanks.

[joanne]

You got me, unless this is a test to see how many of us would begin to act like Protestants when we are under extreme pressure. Understanding how quickly that could happen would give a boost to ecumenism in the same way that understanding the context of our loved ones leads to forgiveness and reconciliation.

[Debbie]

Joanne:

You are partially right it is a test, a test given to us by God. What does God's word teach us to do? Not allow false teachers to come into our church and corrupt believers with false doctrine. Once we've recognized them to take them out of leadership, love them, yes counsel them and pray with them, asking for forgiveness from God the Father.

[Jeanne]

I've heard, recently, that chemotherapy can cause dementia. Has the bishop had chemo lately? And what would we call Jesus? Allah Junior? Isn't that a back-door way to minimize the importance of God's Son? Sorry, but they will have to kill me before I call my heavenly father "Allah". But, of course, we are already aware that the deaths of infidels (Christians and Jews) is their top priority.

[rafshun]

Indeed, what do we call Jesus, or the Holy Ghost? It appears that the bishop is denying the dogma of the Holy Trinity. A most serious offense. If true, he places his position as a bishop, even as a Catholic in jeopardy.

[joanne]

Debbie,
"Once we've recognized them to take them out of leadership"
WE? That's sort of my point. WE [the laity] didn't appoint them. We can only pray and bear witness. And to continue on with the portion of your last line that I believe we CAN do, "love them...asking for forgiveness from God the Father."
There's this obedience and humility requirement, you see.
We should include the flocks of bishops like these in our prayers. They are the ones who are facing conflicts similar to those of Martin Luther.
Discernment in the teeth of abusive or incompetent authority is agonizing. You end up in semantic warfare with dangerous words like 'dissent', 'arrogance', disobedience', 'apostasy', etc. That abuse leads to dissent which leads to a loss of truth seems to be the common human spiritual pattern.

[Brian John Schuettler]

Number One, I must assume that the good bishop knows his theology and the teachings of the Church...so we can eliminate ignorance.
Number Two, why is he saying this now? Is this an act of defiance from a retiring bishop who no longer believes in Jesus Christ as the only Mediator before the Father?
Number Three, I have read at other blogs that...oh, heck, the Christians in the Arab world use the name Allah and to them it means the same as what we mean when we say God. The point is that we are not in the Arab world and the name of Allah does not mean Father, Son and Holy Spirit to us. Since Allah does not equal God in Western Culture then the words are not interchangeable.
At the risk of sounding like a conspiracy buff, I tend to believe that the bishop has an agenda here that surpasses his seemingly innocent desire for "ecumenism" between Moslems and Christians. If God=Allah then the Catholic Church could be viewed as being just another religion equal to all others. Welcome to the world of universal salvation.

[Debbie]

Scripture warns us: "there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring them on themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgement has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber." 2Peter 2:1-3 NKJV

Peter's certainty that there will be such false teachers probably rests on Jesus' predictions in Matthew 24:4-5. False teachers could be recognized by their secretive approaches, their doctrinal errors, and by their abrupt departure from the Christian community. see also 1John 2:19

You can be certain the Vatican did not know about this man's secretive approach to blaspheme the name of God, his doctrinal errors in not holding to the truth that there is only One God and his name is not Allah, and you can be certain of this man's abrupt departure from the Catholic church. Pray that he'll seek God for forgiveness.

[Patrick]

Number Three, I have read at other blogs that...oh, heck, the Christians in the Arab world use the name Allah and to them it means the same as what we mean when we say God. The point is that we are not in the Arab world and the name of Allah does not mean Father, Son and Holy Spirit to us. Since Allah does not equal God in Western Culture then the words are not interchangeable.

As someone has already pointed out, Islam has always been used as a tool of Arab cultural imperialism. This wimpy bishop is eager to accept dhimmi status in Eurabia.

[joanne]

Reminds me of a conversation I had with an artist whose artwork I BOUGHT before she told me how it had been inspired by "Hugh", that "Hugh" was another name for God, and I should reap the benefits of praying to God by that name. I told her that I was completely satisfied with the names for God that I had been taught and would be using no others in prayer. I added that in my yoga class (yes, I used to practice yoga) when others intoned 'OM' I replaced it with 'Jesus' just because I KNEW what that word meant and I knew it was the best word I could say. She had no answer for that. We disconnected politely.
Given that, I admit that I don't know why 'Allah' is referred to by that name. He is the same God, isn't He? Still, the "God by any name" game is a dangerous one, and I'm not interested in playing it.
I also don't want to judge the intentions of a bishop for his suggestion, even if I think it is a ridiculous and risky suggestion. But wouldn't it be wonderful to hear Pope Benedict say "DON'T even think about it!"

[Patrick]

Joanne,

Have you read Book Ten of the Conferences of John Cassian? It is worth printing out from the web. Back in the fourth and fifth centuries John Cassian, the monk, traveled to Egypt to learn what he could from the Desert Fathers. Conference Ten of Cassian's writings discusses the "Method of Continual Prayer" (1 Thessalonians 5:17) as taught by Abbott Isaac.

On a superficial level, the method resembles Eastern mantra practice. One repeats a verse from the sixty-ninth Psalm (Douay/Vulgate numbering) at all times or in time of need (troubles, temptation, etc.).

The verse/prayer is: "Deus in adjutorium meum intende, Domine ad adjuvandum me festina." The English translation is: "O God, come to my assistance. Lord, make haste to help me."

This prayer may sound familiar to you. It is the refrain found all through the Divine Office. St. Benedict used Cassian's writings as a foundation for his Rule. In the Eastern Church this practice evolved into the Jesus Prayer of the Hesychasts (See The Way of the Pilgrim or The Philokalia).

Also, I found the following document to be helpful in understanding the differences between the Eastern (Zen, Yoga, etc.) meditation techniques and Christian contemplation: LETTER TO THE BISHOPS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH ON SOME ASPECTS OF CHRISTIAN MEDITATION by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

All this stuff is online.

[Patrick]

Joanne,

One more thing, I also have some experience with Hatha Yoga. But, I have found another health regimen which is more agreeable to me--both physically and philosophically.

There was a nineteenth-century Bavarian priest who was a gifted healer. His name is Sebastian Kneipp. He is not well-known in America, but he is largely responsible for the twentieth-century health food movement in America. He is famous in Germany. There are still Kneipp centers there. He was a healer/health adviser to the pope, royalty and the poor people who flocked to him for help.

When he was young he cured himself of tuberculosis. He advocated using hydro-therapy (to stimulate the immune system), a vegetarian diet of whole foods , old European herbal remedies, deep breathing, old-time "gymnastic exercises," simple living, living close to nature, etc.

When I read his books, which were written in the nineteenth-century, I am amazed that he advocated the very things that we now hear from modern health experts. Much of Kneipp's knowledge was derived from older European peasant/folk traditions. Those peasants were pretty healthy people! His books include: My Water Cure, Thus Thou Shalt Live, My Will, and Codicil to My Will. Codicil contains his exercise regimen which is gentle and rational.

Kneipp's followers, such as Benedict Lust, traveled to America in the early part of the twentieth-century and established the first health foods stores and so forth. The so called "California Nature Boys" of the 20s-40s were the link between Kneipp's disciples and the 60s crowd. The California hippies in the 60s/70s would not have had an alternative health movement had it not been for this German priest (how is that for irony?). But, no doubt, knowing about him would have spoilt their fun.

Also, on the issue of breathing, the British Medical Journal published an interesting study by Italian scientists which stated the following: Slow breathing enhances heart rate variability and baroreflex sensitivity by synchronising inherent cardiovascular rhythms. Recitation of the rosary, and also of yoga mantras, slowed respiration to almost exactly 6/min, and enhanced heart rate variability and baroreflex sensitivity. The rosary might be viewed as a health practice as well as a religious practice.

Here is a URL where this interesting paper can be found: http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/323/7327/
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I know this was off topic. But, when possible, I like to put a plug in for Kneipp.

[carolg]

I can't help but say that when I read this I thought to myself, "what do you expect, the guy's from the Netherlands?"
But then another part of me thought, "Sheesh, why can't we can idiots like this?" Stuff like this always makes me think of the Bishop we had when I was growing up in Seattle; Hunthausen. He was a flat out heretic and it took forever to get rid of that nut job.
Things like this make me wish the Vatican was as harsh as it is sometimes accused of being.

[joanne]

I'm saving those suggestions for future consideration, Patrick. Thank you.
Meanwhile, I am again admitting to my ignorance re: 'Allah'. I still think that Muslims would NOT appreciate our adoption of their name for God but I don't know the origin (within Islam) of that particular name for God.