My Photo

Insight Scoop

Catholic World News Top Headlines (CWNews.com)

The Curt Jester

JIMMY AKIN.ORG

Poor Box

Render Unto Us

Tip Jar
Blog powered by Typepad

« Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. | Main | Don't Mess Around With Bishop Brown! »

Sunday, August 26, 2007

Comments

carolg

Bishop Brown won't leave that parish alone because it ultimately represents a theology he doesn't hold - and quite possibly dislikes or resents.
The problem for Bishop Brown is that if St. Mary's closes because of huge contributions of his actions, he will have to answer to God for all the confessions that could have been said there and weren't, all the masses that could have been said and weren't . . .and so on and the rest of it.

What a far cry from Fr. Johnson who would walk through the neighborhood and knock on doors inviting people back to church. Now you have a situation where people are being told to stay away unless they belong there by some arbitrary border.

What a terrible thing to do to Christ and his Church. Lord have mercy.

carol

Well, the celebration's over.

The Tridentine at St. Mary's has been cancelled by Fr. Martin Tran.

Taking the pastorship away takes Fr. Tran's authority away to authorize the Tridentine for the parish.

B.Brown also canned the Vietnamese Mass that Fr. Tran had scheduled to begin in Dec to help with the decreasing funds at the parish(deteriorated from $10-12k per week during Fr. Johnson's pastorship - down to $3500 to $4500 with Fr. Tran's caving to B. Brown's demands.)

So, Fr. Tran is gone, the Tridentine is gone, the Vietnamese Mass is gone, and Fr. Tran actually thinks he's going to have a parish to come back to?

It looks like Bishop Tod Brown is actually creating a "reason" for destroying what was, for many years, a vibrant and GROWING Catholic parish. He is making sure it won't be able to support itself. He's cutting off the parishes legs and arms and leaving it to die.

Patrick

Thomistic wrote:

Whatever happens to St. Mary's, traditional Catholicism will survive and it will even thrive.

In the mid-nineties, I had frequent debates on various internet forums about the Tridentine Mass. Back then, when I used the term "Traditional Latin Mass" most people under the age of thirty thought I was referring to Mass with a mariachi band.

Also, back then, when I expressed my hope that Cardinal Ratzinger would be the next pope, and that he would issue the "universal indult" for the Tridentine Mass, I was met with laughter.

Things have really changed.

I think the Motu Proprio will be HUGE. It may take another ten years to gain momentum, but it will have a huge impact on the Church. It may even have an effect on the dying church in Europe. Bishops like Tod Brown just don't see the writing on the wall. Their days are numbered.

Patrick

Carol wrote:

Please God, remove him from the Diocese of Orange before he does further damage to the faith.

Years ago, I corresponded with a lady in Pocatello, Idaho where Tod Brown was bishop. She used to say the same thing (no joke).

Thomistic,

Being the collector of thrift shop/garage sale vinyl that I am, I must ask you, is that your turntable in the video above?

Atlanta Catholic

What happened to Bishop Tod Brown's promise to usher in a new era of open-ness and collaboration with the faithful? Was Bishop Brown's **Covenant with the Faithful**, a PR attempt to take the spotlight off of the sex abuse scandals?

Why is Bishop Brown disobeying the Motu Proprio? The Motu Proprio was not a "suggestion" to place the Tridentine in a holding pattern till the cows come home. This is very predictable behavior for Bishop Tod D. Brown. He has decided to play "Hide the Tridentine under the Shell Game", with St. Mary's by the Sea. There are many priests available to implement the Motu Proprio in the Diocese of Orange. Bishop Tod Brown is trying to challenge the Holy Father. I think that for now, Bishop Brown may think he is in charge of the Holy Father, but in the long run, he will not succeed. Many people in the Diocese of Orange are waiting to give Bishop Tod D. Brown the same standing ovation and cheers of joy, that he received in Idaho when he announced he was leaving.

carol

IN the blog post dated July 7, 2007 someone commented (and I'd commented on it after Masses at St. Mary's) that no priest would DARE say the Tridentine in a diocese under Bishop Brown, even if it was given full permission by the Vatican. (Ha Ha) We all commented on the fact that B. Brown would have them sent to the missions of Africa -

WELL-

Fr. Tran was the first to say that he would have the Tridentine said every Sunday = and within one month, Bishop Brown took his pastorship away and sent him to Vietnam (WHERE HE HAD BEEN TORTURED AND FROM WHERE HE FLED FOR HIS LIFE MANY YEARS AGO)

Ya think anyone else will step forward to say the Tridentine in the Diocese of Orange?

Leo Wong

How long has the N.O. Latin Mass been celebrated at St. Mary's by the Sea? How many people attend? Do the people who favor the extraordinary form attend this N.O. Mass or avoid it?

joanne

Praying.

Patrick

Thomistic wrote:

Some Catholics breathed a sigh of relief when the Coastal Commission heard of such concerns and made it known that Bishop Brown can't destroy St. Mary's, because the church is a historical building.

Can't the property still be sold? In this town, during the 1970s, the attractive 19th century church was sold. An ugly, round, pizza hut style church was built nearby. The old church is now home to some sort of bohemian art museum.

Bishop Brown took his pastorship away and sent him to Vietnam (WHERE HE HAD BEEN TORTURED AND FROM WHERE HE FLED FOR HIS LIFE MANY YEARS AGO).

Does anyone know why this priest is being sent to Vietnam? Is there precedent for this? Does Bishop Brown frequently send priests to Vietnam, or is this an unusual occurrence?

Atlanta Catholic

Sending a Catholic priest to Viet Nam when it is dangerous for them to go is as unpleasant as it would be for Bishop Tod Brown to be placed in a Traditional Monastery and forced to memorize the Baltimore Catechism.

Chuck Evans

All of what's been going on needs to be in all of the California newsmedia [Papper, and television] this way Mr. Brown will get the exposure he deserves and some.

Chuck Evans

oops meant papers

Thomistic

I don't know that Bishop Brown is sending Fr. Tran to Vietnam. I don't think Fr. Tran is in any danger in Vietnam, either.

Patrick, the turntable isn't mine. :) (Though I wouldn't mind owning one.)

I just found the video for "Eye In The Sky" on YouTube. I didn't post it. (I didn't post "The Games People Play" either.)

Pax,

Thomistic

Manuel

Carol wrote
"B.Brown also canned the Vietnamese Mass that Fr. Tran had scheduled to begin in Dec to help with the decreasing funds at the parish."

I believe that the reason for canceling the Vietnamese Mass was because we do not have many Vietnamese in the St Mary’s area in Huntington Beach. Vietnamese Catholics do not like to travel far for a Mass, they have plenty in their favorite area GG, WTM, SA and the Vietnamese center and a Vietnamese Parish Our Lady of La Vong in Santa Ana with a Bishop in residence. Also it would be very hard for Fr. Martin Tran to explain how he was to attract people outside the boundaries of St. Mary’s when he has said that the Tridentine Mass is only for parishioners’ of St Mary’s. That is double standard but it wouldn't be the first time.

Carol also wrote
"Fr. Tran was the first to say that he would have the Tridentine said every Sunday = and within one month, Bishop Brown took his pastorship away and sent him to Vietnam (WHERE HE HAD BEEN TORTURED AND FROM WHERE HE FLED FOR HIS LIFE MANY YEARS AGO)"
Carol seems to imply that all of the sudden Fr. Tran became a traditional priest and that he is being punished for it! I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news but I do not believe it. I attend daily Mass at St. Mary’s and Fr. Tran is still a liberal Bp Brown’s boy. About 2 weeks ago in one of his “salvation for the whole world” homilies he said that “we are the Bread of Life” and I could go on and on. I guess some people forget that Fr. Tran believes that women should be ordained. Fr. Martin Tran was not stripped of the pastorship he has never been the pastor of St Mary’s. Fr. Tran is not been sent to Vietnam as a punishment it is a reward for the “good job” he has done in St Mary’s.

Patrick

Thomistic,

After rereading your post, I see that the bulletin does not state that Bishop Brown is sending Fr.Tran to Vietnam. Maybe, the parishioners have some additional information not provided in the bulletin.

marge

It truly amazes me just how "afraid" of the Latin Tridentine Mass these Bishops are.They have lost their own faith,and I guess they figure they have to make certain everyone else does too. "Bishop" Brown will have a lot to answer for at the end of his life, I will pray for his conversion back to being a true Roman Catholic.Hopefully, nothing will happen to St. Mary's by the Sea.

Patrick Kinsale

I would not be surprised to see a TLM soon at St. Michael's Abbey in Trabuco Canyon. The prior of the Canons Regular of the New Jerusalem will be in residence there this school year.

I am not sure canonically whether the bishop has the power to stop them from saying a TLM. Summorum Pontificum is quite clear in that regard.

Geoffrey Smith

Have you guys never heard of demonic possession? That's what you've got right now in Orange County. "If it looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck,..."

MargaretC

This is outrageous. Not just this story, but all of the happenings combined....it is way out of hand. How long must this go on unchecked? Bishop Brown is destructing the Diocese of Orange. Please, would someone at the Vatican help the Catholics in Orange? The Vatican intervened when Archbishop Hunthausen in Seattle got too fruity.....it is needed in Orange now. Jesus and Mary, HELP!!

carol

Patrick:
re: "After rereading your post, I see that the bulletin does not state that Bishop Brown is sending Fr.Tran to Vietnam. Maybe, the parishioners have some additional information not provided in the bulletin."

There's a whole weeks worth of meetings, phone calls, Masses, homilies and conversations that are NOT in the bulletin. Who do you think is sending him? - he just got a pastorship and he lives in HB and his family lives in OC and northern CA - why go there after what he had been thru?

Fr. Tran found out about his trip to Vietnam in early July after a meeting in Marywood.- He's been outwardly, obviously sick (with concern) and nervous about the sitation for a month - he's scared. He constantly asked for prayers for his safe return at every opportunity.

This is no reward.
and

Manuel,
I'm not implying anything of the sort.- You want to know what I'm saying - just ask.

What I guess you don't know is that he was officially designated pastor a few days before it was announced in the 7/22/07 bulletin.

http://myweb.ecomplanet.com/SMBT2598/Bulletins/7-22-07.pdf

Do you have some inside info that would contradict this?

Re: no problems in Vietnam for Catholics -
here are just 2 quick current news stories

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2007/03/12/news/top_stories/31107201405.txt

and

http://www.persecution.org/suffering/newsdetail.php?newscode=4918

I wouldn't want to go there as a Catholic priest.

Patrick

Carol wrote:

Fr. Tran found out about his trip to Vietnam in early July after a meeting in Marywood.- He's been outwardly, obviously sick (with concern) and nervous about the sitation for a month - he's scared. He constantly asked for prayers for his safe return at every opportunity.

Maybe, someone should advise him not go. "If" this is all true, then that is one wicked bishop.

Manuel

Carol out of the 3 links only one works! The priest Fr. Van Ly is accused of being a founding member of a pro-democracy movement.
Fr. Tran is very good about obeying Bp Brown even going the extra mile punishing parishioners at St. Mary's! You don't have to worry about him rocking the boat over there!
Fr. Tran anounced that he was the pastor but as far as I know there was not an official appointment from the Personal Board in Marywood. The official document, I saw it, was that he was incardinated into our Diocese, but not that he was appointed as a pastor.Did you see his appointment letter as a pastor? Also I remember that about 3 years ago the Bishop's personal secretary,Father Ngeyen along with Father Bill Bartman and other priests made a trip to Vietnam and I heard they were treated very well down there.

anonymous

The letters, according to the motu proprio, need to be written first to the bishop - who, according to the bulletin, is now in charge (simply because we no longer have a pastor)

If you want to participate in this letter writing campaign (recommended by the motu proprio) send an email to- stjoemotupro@hotmail.com

to get on the email list. They will be forwarding a "letter to Bishop Brown" to everyone on their list (promised sometime next week). Instructions will be included on what to do next.

Martin Hernandez

Yes, Patrick has it right Demonic possesion is the answer to Bishop Brown, his sheer hatred of the Holy Catholic faith and of the Traditional Latin Mass explains it all. To the people of St. Mary's you have every right to your Traditional Mass stand up to this man who claims to be a Catholic bishop, remember the Devil is afraid of the Traditional Mass!!! Stand up to this bully!!

dino

Manuel,
Yes, there is a brand-new shiny Vietnamese parish church in Santa Ana. You may well know that it replaced a historic but smaller, much-loved church built by the Latino community. The pastor of the former parish church has now been transferred to and named a "parochial vicar", more of a demotion, in a parish YouTube-famous for its liturgical innovations under a new pastor.
Never been to St. Mary's in HB, but wonder how true to the GIRM the NO Latin Mass is celebrated.

The comments to this entry are closed.

Pope Benedict XVI Homilies & Statements

Codex of Catholic Blogs

Orthodox Blogs

Blogs From People We Wish Were Catholic