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« From The Orange County Register: Brown Accuser Talks About His Past | Main | A Post On Many Things »

Monday, October 01, 2007



actually, this is a pretty good example of why i DO criticize FOX; the coverage of that story is so overdone, so dramatized, so alarmist in its nature, that it is impossible to get an ubiased ("fair and banalnced") view of the story. The horror soundtrack running in the background, the scandalized, militant tone of the reporter, and the obvious slant towards conservative coverage make it hard to trust their story. If it were done in a balanced and unbiased way, looking at the story from both sides and taking a neutral stance, it would be easier to judge the story. Unfortunately, the way this story was done makes me doubt it; i want to hear the other legal side of the story, so i can judge for myself.


So, let me get this straight...

You're saying you want to hear what the baby-killers have to say, because that's fair, balanced, and objective, and you claim the report was dodgy because you didn't see enough to convince you that what was being reported was, in fact, accurate? So you need to hear more of their side of the story to make an objective judgment about what they're doing?


Didn't you see the Planned Parenthood representative explaining that what they did was legal, but they kept their "opponents" in the dark? Is that not allowing Planned Parenthood to tell their side?

I'm also confused about why you don't think it is scandalous that minors are being encouraged by Planned Parenthood staff to lie about statutory rape while they facilitate the murder of these young girls' innocent, unborn babies? They played tape recordings of the calls. That's concrete evidence that occurs. Why does that need "balance". Planned Parenthood is covering up the sexual abuse of minors. That's a crime. Literally.

I haven't really seen CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC, or CBS or The New York Times covering that story. Have you?

Based on what you've said, it doesn't sound like you think abortion is all that bad.

I've seen media reports of the holocaust in the mainstream media that were every bit of what you criticized about this story, would you say such reports needed balance and should have included commentary by holocaust deniers, skinheads, radical Islamists, and any living Nazi war criminals they could find?

One more thing: Hannity's America is not a news show. It's more like a news magazine show, like 20/20 on ABC or Dateline on NBC. I think you'll find plenty of melodrama on those programs, as well.




I heard a panel of "experts" speaking about education on tv the other day- the question of immigration came up and 2 of the panel quoted a statistic saying that the population growth in the US does not support the future of the GNP that is why the immigrants are needed to bolster employee replacement.

Then I asked myself the following question- If the population growth in the US will not support our GNP - why are we using tax dollars to subsidize Planned Parenthood for the killing through of the youngest Americans? It makes no sense.



I have a couple of things to say in response to your post.

First, this is newsworthy and should be reported on. Why is FOX one of the few out there telling the story about how this building came to be?, which is also a conservative website has also reported on this story, but why not the others? Whatever slant you think should be on the story, you still need to ask yourself why so few “news agencies” will touch this one. The answer is simple. Abortion is a third rail topic unless you tell the pro-abort side. With all the stories the other networks do run about drunken actresses or other celebrity bad behavior, and try to pass off as news why choose this one to complain about? This is a relevant serious issue and this story needs to be reported on and bravo to FOX for doing it.

Second, this is not overdone or dramatized. What Planned Parenthood did was sneaky and illegal and the fact that they got caught is BIG news. What you don’t understand, because you couldn’t if you haven’t been following along, is the whole story. This has been going on all summer and Planned Parenthood has attacked Eric Scheidler of the Pro-life Action League basically calling the people who don’t want this clinic in their backyards criminals. Here’s some more information on the story:
What is going on here Andrew is a very dramatic situation where you have a community of families telling the nation’s largest abortion provider they will do everything in their power to keep Planned Parenthood away from their daughters. And their numbers and what they can do is growing.

The good news is that the 40-day vigil that went on this summer worked! This is remarkable. I used to live in Chicago and worked with the people you see in this video. The city of Chicago is run by a bunch of pirates and I was concerned that Aurora wouldn’t be much better and that someone would get paid off and the clinic would open as scheduled. But their prayers and efforts are working!

We should all add to our prayers that this clinic stay closed and the building either be torn down or turned into retail stores or something. The families of America can all send a message to Planned Parenthood that we don’t want them killing our future anymore. And that Andrew is very newsworthy – not that you’d ever hear that on the news stations you listed.


Does anyone realistically expect murderers to tell the truth about their repugnant crimes? Those conected with PP are all criminals who will meet with just punishment sooner or later.



Nowhere did i say in my post that i wasn;t against abortion. So you should probably stop making assumptions and reading things into other people's arguments in order to bolster your own. This isue is indeed newsworthy, which is why it deserves a non-biased, intellectual treatment, not a radical, sensationalized rag. Justice is not served by stories like this.

The fact is, many many people involved in planned parenthood do not think they are bad people. In fact, many of them are, othewrise, very good people. This sort of coverage does more to polarize and incite hatred than it does to solve the problem.

A Simple Sinner

Interesting how effete the president of Chicago Planned Parenthood is...


1) My argument wasn't in any way bolstered by my observation that your comments didn't indicate any sense that you recognize how seriously evil abortion is or any sense that you recognize that to not be scandalized by the act of abortion is a sign that one is has been desensitized to a very grave evil and therefore is quite possibly not properly equipped to recognize that all that can be done, so long as it does not involve sin, must be done to end legal, elective abortion.

My reasoning was fairly solid without the observation. I only added it because it was my honest impression of what you wrote.

2) There are no sound, rational arguments in favor of legal, elective abortion. They are all rooted in logical fallacies, emotional appeals, and demagoguery. Unfortunately, such tactics are extremely effective with most people; especially given the fact that most people are not trained to think logically. Most people haven't been taught sound philosophy. They have been influenced by modern philosophy to the extent that they have been taught to use skepticism improperly and they are primarily motivated by materialism, pragmatism, and emotion. Although it would be wonderful to have a wide audience see a reasoned presentation on objective truth with respect to abortion (and many other things) doing so would very likely have little effect. You can't feed an infant a steak dinner, you can't use philosophical arguments to herd sheep, and you can't expect many human beings who have had their judgment clouded by emotion and demagoguery to be affected by fact alone.

3) I found it interesting that you wrote, "... many, many people involved in planned parenthood do not think they are bad people. In fact, many of them are, otherwise, very good people."

Aside from the fact that it's appalling that anyone would say that people who facilitate murder are "otherwise, very good people", your comment reminded me of this audio slide show I saw recently: Multimedia: Audio Slide Show

(The slideshow was taken from this article: In the Shadow of Horror, SS Guardians Frolic, The New York Times, September 19, 2007)

I agree that it's easy for people to turn a blind eye to how evil they and others around them have become, especially if they are desensitized and complacent.

As I see it, the problem with your argument is that you seem to believe that desensitized people can be reasoned into sensitivity.

I think people need to wake up to reality and see what is happening and feel bad enough to do something about it. If words will do that for some people, then that's great, but words won't work for most people. Most people won't move unless they're uncomfortable, and it's hard to be comfortable if the unpleasant truth is raining down your neck.




Hard Truth

Br. Alexis Bugnolo

An excellent rebuttal, Thomistic: Kudos!


Andrew, your perception is interesting and I wonder how much actual experience you’ve had with pro-abortion supporters. Yes, maybe some who support abortion can behave politely if you run into them at a cocktail party and you are discussing global warming or something. These are people, I find, who support the idea of abortion (which in it’s self is abhorrent to me) but have no idea what abortion is like up close and in person. I can tell you from personal experience that the people who are out in front of the clinics or who run them are generally not nice when you begin to challenge what they are doing. They are only “nice” if you let what they are doing go unchallenged. Please re-read that last sentence and think for a moment about it’s meaning.

When you are out in front of an abortion clinic you see all sorts of things that are disgusting and would make it hard for the average person to support abortion. If you know someone you consider a ‘good person’ who supports abortion ask them if they’ve ever seen a woman exit an abortion clinic white as a sheet and barely able to walk. Ask them if they’ve ever seen a woman sitting in her car with a vomit tray in her lap throwing up from what ever they gave to her to ‘prepare’ her body for the abortion that she has to come back for the next day. I mean to be graphic so you understand what supporters of abortion see all the time and have no problem with – and I could go on and on. These are only a couple of things I’ve seen while sidewalk counseling with Vince (the lawyer you see in this video) at the Planned Parenthood downtown. Additionally the people out in front of the clinic who escort women in can be very callous and engage in over-the-top behavior. I’ve been lied to, sworn at, threatened and I’ve seen my friend spit on all by the clinic volunteers. One o them used to stand right next to me (while I was on the sidewalk praying and waiting for someone who looked like they would go in) and mutter the most filthy things at me and called me every dirty name out there. He would get so mad that I wouldn’t be upset and told him his behavior only degraded himself. These were not nice people.

Anyway, worse than any of the behavior directed at me, or the people I worked with, was the blasphemy directed at our prayers and Our Lord and the Blessed Mother. My experience is that the people who are out in front of the clinic hate anything good and anything connected to God.


p.s. solving the problem would be closing the building.


I thought it was creepy how the head of Planned Parenthood spokesman, Steve Trombley, looked like Scott Petersen, who also murdered his own baby boy. Do you think that baby killers resemble one another?

Atlanta Catholic



I agree with your statements about abortion; that should be obvious - I am Catholic. But what you say after that alarms me; are you saying that since most people respond not to logic but to illogical emotional appeals, we should not use logic and reason in talking to them? Are you really saying that we should use alarmist, sensationalized stories in order to appeal to their lack of reason? To me, that sounds like trickery. If that is the only way you can come up with to convince abortion supporters that they are wrong, than you have done NOTHING. They have merely been tricked, momentarily persuaded; they do not truly beleive, as you and I do, that abortion is wrong; they will be converted back again just as easily by the next illogical, sensationalized argument.

The ONLY way we can approach this problem is through calm, rational, logic. It shoould be unbiased and rooted in Christ's charity. We should see these people not as satanic enemies, but as mistaken people who deserve our pity, who we should help and counsel. My experience with anyone who supports abortion is that they firmly believe it is the right, moral thing. You and i both know this is wrong, but we must recognize that, in their own way, they are trying to be moral. It is our job to show them true morality, through love and patience - not to show them hatred or scorn.

Here is what i mean when i say they are otherwise good people:
I have yet to come across any abortion supporter who supports abortion for any reason other than that they believe it is the right thing. That point of view should be pitied and corrected, but we must recognise that they are struggling to find morality, and need us to guide them away from the sinful path they have unfortunately been convinced to take.



I do understand what you are saying. To me, however, it is completely irrational to discuss under which conditions innocent and defenseless people can be killed, and that is where the conversations always ends up when I try to discuss this with people who support abortion.

I do appreciate you position, but I don’t believe there is a way to find some kind of middle ground on this matter. And the people you’re talking about need to understand that. I do understand some people support abortion, or let it happen out of weakness. I do not believe they are trying to be moral in their own way – they are weak-minded and poorly formed. These are the people who need to see up close and in person what it is they are allowing to continue – this is NOT an emotional appeal it’s reality. They believe lies. It is the only way to shock some people into understanding the truth, the sense of urgency and why it is always wrong. Others do come to the conclusion abortion is wrong through discussion but I think those are few and far between.

People know when a woman is pregnant, it’s because she’s carrying a baby. People know when you have an abortion it destroys the baby. A lot of people can talk themselves in circles justifying it out of weakness. Watch that U Tube video HARD TRUTH – it cuts through all the crap pretty quickly and that’s what most people need.



1. According to the Thomistic viewpoint, the speculative intellect informs the will, while the will informs the practical intellect. Men of evil will simply *cannot* learn or understand the truth of practical moral matters. As long as a person loves himself above God, he will invariably come to error in practical questions.

2. Every work of spirituality I have ever read has said that intellectual considerations are worthwhile *only* to the extent that they inspire good affections and resolutions. If this is true even for Catholics attempting to move themselves to spiritual progress, how much more is it true for unbelievers? Your statement, "The ONLY way we can approach this problem is through calm, rational, logic" is simply unfounded. St. Thomas specifically says that most people will not reason themselves to the Truth, or be persuaded by argument, but will need to be moved by other causes. And Our Lord Himself taught, "as one having authority."

3. What intellectual point needs to be argued? The only point is whether or not abortion is murder. To calmly and rationally discuss murder seems to me absurd. Our actions need to correspond to our beliefs. If we say that life begins at conception, but act in anyway toward abortionists in a way contrary to how we would react to any other murderer in the world, then people will (correctly, I might add) conclude that we don't really believe it. When I a Catholic says, "Hi! It seems that, although I'm sure that you're in every other way a super-spiffy guy, you seem to spend a lot of your time murdering innocent people. I think it would be just swell if you did that a little less, m'kay?" it seems to me that the pro-life cause is done no great service.

Sometimes what is needed is not light, but fire. Mind you, even murderers need to be treated respectfully and in a manner consistent with the charity of Christ, but to treat them in a manner indistinguishable from the righteous seems as likely to confirm them in their errors as it is to inspire them to conversion.

Guy Montag

For agood story or tow, does not a Faux News station make. It is a Neocon outlet, playing the other side of the "liberal"news outlets (you knowo, the ones blaming AL Quieda for everything and using White House lingos).

It is trash network-BTW Rupert Murdoch has finally come out openly and admits to helping fund raise for Hillary "scary" Clinton.

Catholic? Flush Rush, Faux, CNN, etc.


Here we go again with the village idiots changing the topic of discussion from the facts of the story to Fox News. I swear, if Fox News reported an approaching tidal wave, these people would wonder what kind of neo-con conspiracy was "really" going on.


You see, Andrew, how is a guy like Guy Montag to be reasoned with using logic and philosophical argument? His reactions and thinking are driven by base emotions. His thinking is deeply disturbed, and he is probably completely incapable of any serious dialogue or reasoned argument of any real depth. I don't say this to be mean or judgemental. I've seen, spoken with, and known people like this for decades, and it's always the same with them.

This is what Thomistic was talking about; this is what most people in America do with most issues requiring thought, reason, and logic: they just follow the current trend on things. They fall for the trite, idiotic sound bites, like the Faux News meme. That's what goes for thinking in his circles. You can't talk reasoned argument against abortion with people at this stage of thought, because it would sound like banging pans to them. These are the types that substitute argument for throwing cream pies at whom they disagree.

Oh, and you can believe he went or is going to college. Tells you a lot, right? These people are much more likely to be influenced by shocking images and emotions to get them to change their opinions than any argument. Seriously, using logic and reasoning is like talking a foreign language to these types...but it should be tried when the occassion presents itself. A reasonable argument was going, and you see how he handled it. It's like a little child piping up during an adult conversation. We all just roll our eyes...unfortunately we can't pat him on the top of the head and tell him to go outside to play on the tire swing. This, I believe, is what Thomistic was getting at.


I think it is important to note that Planned Parenthood isn't all about abortion. They have other programs as well that help young women who are raped and abused and they have programs that teach young people their options for safety when Abstinence Only programs don't work. And...they don't always work! I live smack in the middle of the Bible Belt in Texas, a place where abstinence surely IS taught, and yet at my brother's high school there is a daycare for students to keep their children in while they are in school. I truly think that some places could benefit from some of the things that PP has to offer.

I am not saying that I completely agree with abortion, but I do believe in a woman's right to choose for herself. For example, I have heart problems, a pregnancy would either kill me or the baby. If something happens and I turn up pregnant, my only option may be abortion. And for those of you who would say something to the effect of I've lived my life, it's time for the baby to have a chance....Um NO!! How could I bring a child into this world knowing that they wouldn't have a mother?! (I have had that said to me before, so..)

As for them saying that they worked hard to keep their opponents from knowing that they were there...well, DUH!!! No one ever talks about the valuable programs they have!! All anyone focuses on is the fact that they perform abortions. If they want to be able to integrate their more positive programs, then they have to be able to first build within a community. Another good reason that they may have wanted to keep it secret is because some of these so called "Pro-Lifers" who cry about how they are murderers and baby killers think nothing of walking into one of their buildings with a gun or a bomb and killing people in there. Talk about hypocrisy!!

The statutory rape victim...ok...yes, I agree that they are legally responsible for turning that information in to the authorities. However, we only heard part of that conversation. We do NOT know the whole story. I do have a friend who volunteers at PP...and she told me that they had a case similar to that. Now, here in Texas, there is no statutory rape. There is only child molestation. The girl was 16, and her boyfriend was 20. The girl called and was talking about an abortion. She told them about the age difference, and instead of freaking out on her, they told her several of the things heard in that tape, and when she came in, and they were able to prove her story and talk to her about her options, they dealt with it properly. That is procedure. They have to get the girl in there to be able to prove the story, and to talk to her. You cannot have an opinion based on one conversation that you didn't fully hear.



If you haven't figured this out, I'll tell you why abortion is wrong. First of all, the supreme court had no right to deem the fetus as not being human (and yes it did that). With plenty of scientists who can prove that the fetus does have a beating heart, a pair lungs that work, and the ability to respond to almost all external actions, its obvious the fetus IS A HUMAN BEING AND IS ALIVE. Now what is it that we call when we end the life of a living human being? huh? It's called murder.

The fetus being a human being is a fact, not an opinion. So for anyone to say that abortion is ok, even if they personally would never allow it, should just condone murder, since that is what abortion is.

Anyways, the type of women who get abortions from planned parenthood most likely are young teenagers (since it is the youths they mostly cater to). I doubt these women have any medical conditions that would make pregnancy fatal (although I am not saying that could never happen), unless young women are now getting heart attacks and arthritis too.

Oh, you're mistaken if you think no one admires and upholds the things planned parenthood does. Obviously, most of the people have already implied that Fox News has been the ONLY channel that would speak out against something that Planned Parenthood has done. Liberalists and the like uphold in great light organizations such as these. And anyways, what good has planned parenthood done other than condoning deceitful acts of teenagers?

You're also mistaken if you think most "pro-lifers" would be willing to bomb a Planned Parenthood building. There's only been a few cases so far of that happening and it was only committed by a few radical individuals. The majority of the pro-life movement has never condoned such as actions. So, in other words, your supposedly good reasons for defending their lies is a heaping bowl of crap. The only reason why they lied is that they didn't want to give pro-life families the right to CHOOSE whether they wanted that facility in their neighborhood. They knew these people who are opposed to their cause would most definitely not allow them to build that facility. They wanted to deceive these people so that hopefully more teenage women will have abortions.

Oh, and another thing, I'd rather have no mother than have no life. I think it would be better not having a mother anyways if that mother was a selfish hag who didn't want anything to do with me.

Atlanta Catholic

"I am not saying that I completely agree with abortion, but I do believe in a woman's right to choose."

So Mandy believes in a woman's right to kill her innocent unborn baby girl or baby boy.

Slavery was also legal at one time too Mandy! The Supreme Court was wrong on that one too.

Mandy you don't know how cold you sound. Even though you say that you have heart problems, for which I am sorry, that does not seem to be your main hurdle. Your main hurdle is that you are "heartless" when you can condone the murder of babies. I am not surprised that you have a friend that works at PP abortion (baby murdering mills)! They sound just as heartless as you. You obviously have a lot in common...."Missing Hearts"!

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