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« Obamanation - The Cult Of Barack Hussein Obama | Main | "It's Perfectly Normal" – Sex Education For Ages 10 & Above »

Thursday, May 15, 2008


Atlanta Catholic

California....."GET READY FOR THE BIG ONE"!

Michael Maedoc

Here it comes, and who will rally us John McCain - No! We need leadership and the breakdown on "Cafeteria is closed" is another bad sign. Lets engage in honest natural law argumentation as Thomistic did back in April.

Marriage is a religious institution at its core and the state has no right to redefine it.

Brian Day

The decision is obviously wrong (Duh!). It will be interesting to see if there will be a proposition on the November ballot to overturn this decision. (I think there is one pending signature verification at the Secretary of State's office.)

But more importantly, I would like to get a Catholic lawyer's evaluation of the decision to see how it will affect the Church's stance on marriage. Will the Church be sued for discrimination when a homosexual couple asks a priest to marry them and are denied?

P.S. This is a California state constitution question. Don't look for any "national leaders" to lead the counter attack. We in California will have to the heavy lifting ourselves. Cardinal Mahony, Bishop Brown, are you listening?

Michael Maedoc

The president and national legislators can help frame the debate by making an issue of such activity among judges and pointing out the problem with it. But, yes ultimately you folks in California need to get moving.

Robin Conroy

YAY!!!!! See I told you guys - we're here - open the doors and welcome us! Also a quick note - - are you aware that many dioceses (by Law)must recognize domestic partnership benefits for employees living together. Finally my two godchildren (surrogate mother)whose parents ARE two men and who have been BAPTIZED in the church can hold their heads high and say YES to their classmates at their California Catholic school - their dads are married! What joy - thank you, thank you, thank you California!!!!!! This site is monitored by someone in ORANGE COUNTY - (just checking) again Ijust needed to say thank you for your wonderful state that recognizes TRUE LOVE!


Here is the unbelievable part in the judicial ruling as written by the California Supreme Court "Grief" Justice:

"In contrast to earlier times, our state now recognizes that an individual's capacity to establish a loving and long-term committed relationship with another person and responsibly to care for and raise children does not depend upon the individual's sexual orientation," Chief Justice Ronald George wrote for the majority.

Uh, genius, what kids are we talking about in a gay/lesbian relationship that doesn't include adoption from a heterosexual couple? Honestly, how stupid can a person be? He also seems to want to overturn the laws of nature...and probably would if he could.

This is what we're dealing with: they're going to jam this down our throat judicially, and then they're going to use this kind of argumentation. Anyone using this kind of logic is hopelessly lost in irrationality and impenetrable ignorance.

It is a hopeless cause. The only answer is that he be recalled (like Rose Bird and her cronies 20+ years ago) and that a state amendment move forward immediately. I think we have a decent Attorney General here in California. I think he'll give the proposed marriage amendment the go-ahead if the signatures deserve it. I think.

USA, welcome to Democratic Party rule. Our economy is tanking; businesses, capital, and residence are going elsewhere; our deficits are unbelievable; our taxes are going to go up; judges are deciding issues not in their power! But the weather is nice. There's NEVER any accountability for Dems. They're Teflon.

Atlanta Catholic

Robin Conroy,

Don't gloat too much. The most important door that you want to open is the door that opens to your Eternity. No unjust civil law supersedes God's Laws and Commandments or Justice.

Slavery was an unjust law in the eyes of God. Abortion is an unjust law in the eyes of God. Same sex marriage is an unjust law in the eyes of God. Yes, you do have the free will to offend God. This is not the will of the people or the Will of God. I would never want you to be joyful about entering a door that mocks God's design of the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman.

Remember Robin that the gate or door to heaven is narrow. The road to hell is broad Robin and many travel that road. You have nothing to gloat about. Your happiness about this is the saddest indicator of the door you find appealing. Your "here" Robin, but one day you'll be "there". Please know that I want your "there" to be the door that opens to heaven with sanctifying grace. Mortal sin opens the risky door to eternal damnation.

Thank you for admitting that you are drawn to monitor this site. When you only surround yourself with people who encourage mortal sin, it is almost impossible without God's grace to change. Listening to the tone of your glee lets me know that you are far from apppreciating or desiring the truth. It may take some time but you will see the ramifications of ignoring God's Laws. This happens to all of us for various reasons. Hopefully you will remember the faithful Catholics who were willing to love you with the truth, even when they knew you would reject hearing it.

James M. Essig

These are extremely serious times we are living in. Our Lady of Fatima has warned us of the potential consequences of habitual mortal sins of the flesh and related activities.

We not only have legalized abortion thanks to the Roe verses Wade decision which has resulted in 50 million babies being savagely slaughtered since that 1970s supreme court ruling, but know a national movement to legalize the sin of homosexual sexual unions and further denigrate heterosexuality by referring to such gay unions as marriage. The pro-homosexual-sex folks will, if given a chance, take one state after another down this slippery slope.

Our Lady must be crying in Heaven just as she often did when she appeared to the young visionaries at Fatima. In a nation that declares that we are "One Nation under God", we are straying far from morality. The incidence of the use of artificial contraception which the Vatican teaches as sinful, even mortally sinful when there is full knowledge of its wrongful nature, and full deliberation in its use, seems ubiquitous even in married Catholic couples of child bearing age.

I do not like to make the statements that I am about to make and do not make such statements lightly, and of course I am not speaking for the Blessed Virgin Mary nor the Catholic Church but rather from personal opinion, but perhaps the Miracle of the Sun portends multimegaton thermonuclear warhead airburst explosions which would fit the notions of various nations being annihilated. The translation of the phrase annihilated is consistent not simply with political takeover or military occupation, but rather complete and total devastation. Both superpowers possess known nuclear arsenals that can wreak such havoc all in a lazy afternoon. One Russian nuclear powered ballistic missile submarine carries on board on the rough order of magnitude of 200 missile mounted nuclear warheads, each warhead with about 50 times the yield of the device which destroyed Hiroshima and killed well over 100,000 Japanese. Rest assure, the Russians have several such submarines on constant patrol which can launch at a moments notice and so does the U.S. One such submarine could effectively destroy the United Stares. With all the talk of black or secret weapons programs on both sides of the Atlantic, God only knows what sort of horrible weapon systems are being developed in the dark halls of certain nuclear physics labs.

Our Lady and Our Lord cannot be pleased with the state of affairs within this land of ours. The ubiquitous showing of movies showing graphic sex in morally illicit situations, the promotion of "homosexual marriage", the fact that up to 80 or 90 percent of graduate students have had extramarital sex, the 50 million slaughtered babies since row verses wade, and the countless others that have been denied existence by the use of artificial contraception, and the list goes on and on, is more than enough to bring Our Lady to tears in a manner that often takes place in many of the so-called modern day apparitions.


No one can deny that the three candidates differ on this matter, even while their words are eerily similar: states should decide the matter. Here's a sample, but notice the difference between the three--McCain stands alone disagreeing with the decision.

"Barack Obama has always believed that same-sex couples should enjoy equal rights under the law, and he will continue to fight for civil unions as president. He respects the decision of the California Supreme Court, and continues to believe that states should make their own decisions when it comes to the issue of marriage," the Illinois senator's campaign said. [Does Barak think California "decided" this issue when Prop. 22 just 8 years ago contradicted this ruling in a landslide election by the voters of the State? And yesterday ONE judge decided the issue, trumping millions of voters?]

"As president, Hillary Clinton will work to ensure same-sex couples have access to these rights and responsibilities at the federal level. She has said and continues to believe that the issue of marriage should be left to the states." [Again, notice the non-statement statement that has characterized the Clintons' unendurable double-speak for 16 years. The issue was decided in California 8 years ago by the voters of California in Proposition 22. Yet here it is again, hoisted upon us by a ONE-judge majority. Clearly, four judges know better than millions of voters.]

McCain rejected the will of the state's high court even as he tried to maintain his long-held stance that the issue should be left to the states. [The lone candidate who understands the wrong done to the State by judicial activism, though I wish he'd speak a bit more forcefully.]

What seems to me either disengenuous on the part of these three, or cowardly, is their lack of "straight talk" (forgive the pun!!)that a federal constitutional amendment requires ratification by the states. How does this necessity not address states' rights most closely? And why can't these three see this and admit this basic fact? They wouldn't be pandering, would they?

It makes me conclude that our country languishes for lack of leaders with vision, wisdom, clarity, and backbone.


It's over. I'm hauling down the "starry rag," as General Stuart called it, and it ain't goin' up no more. The Great Masonic Republic has attained to it's logical conclusion, and is dead.

I'm nearly 46. I voted the first time for Ronald Reagan in 1980. I've voted in every single election, with the exception of one, a primary race, for which I've been eligible since. I met the Gipper several times. I worked on his campaigns. I ran local campaigns. I've made calls, gone door to door, given time, energy, and money to the GOP. I was duped.

25 years ago, with all the talk of James Madison and the Federalist Papers, I actually read the damn things, and naively thought we really had a chance to restore constitutional government.

What a laugh.

I have a post-graduate education. I have a substantial income. I'm married to the same woman I wed 20 years ago. I have children. I'm a TLM-going Roman Catholic. The Republican Party needs me. I WAS the Republican Party. Without me, and millions like me, they go nowhere. And I believed in them. I really did. No more.

The sole hope for this country is that some governor with cajones finally stiffens his spine and says "NO," for one governor to make it 1861 all over again (I live in Pennsylvania and was born in NYS btw, lest anyone think otherwise). That's it.

Otherwise the dark juggernaut rolls on.

Moloch Obama will be elected president. Sodomite marriage, abortion, infanticide, euthanasia, are only the tip of the spear. What follows is persecution. Public practice of the Faith will become anathema. Living a Catholic life will in the end bring public opprobrium, then discipline, then loss of livelihood, then legal prosecution, then prison, then death.

The maw closes about us.

Our Lady of Fatima, pray for us!


I think the governor of Montana has some stones...
Read it and cheer him on!


Atlanta Catholic,

Outstanding reply to Robin! You went right to the heart of the matter: eventually, we will all be "there" and it will be for eternity. Our time to get it right here on Earth is so short. I'll also pray that Robin and others of like mind are given the grace they need before it's too late.

It's clear from Robin's post that he and the parents of his so-called godchild place the changeable and unpredictable powers of the State over and above the authentic unchangeable authority of Christ's Church. The State represents the powers of the World, and the World is the Devil's playground right now. It's a daily battle for each of us to stay in the Lord and not be dragged back down into the mud of the World. That's why Christ built His Church on Earth, with Peter as vicar of Christ, to help keep us in communion with Him.

We all need to pray daily to be graced with eyes to see and ears to hear THE Truth, not OUR truth, Robin. Make that petition, and then let Him make everything new in you. Don't be afraid.

 WilhelmThe Inquisitor

This Nation will become like Soddam and Gomorah soon, If this Trend of Regognizing This Perversion of The Sacrement Of Matrimony Continues.The Chastisment will be severe.

Robin, I pity you.
All I can say to you is "May God help change your perverted ideas before Judgement Day"
Pax Domini

 WilhelmThe Inquisitor

CCC 2367
Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved

Brian Fisher

I Thought the comment "Marriage is a religious institution and the state has no right getting involved was particularly disturbing, ignorant and ironic. Marriage predates the Church and even predates biblical times. Marriage is a sacrement - or tradition, whatever you choose to call it - known to all races and religions. Socities that have no organized religions at all still have marriages. Since when did marriage become the sole providence of the Catholic Church?
It amazes me how a man like Archbishop John Myers of Newark can proclaim himself the defender of marriage yet he condones adultery by priests.
His own personal secretary, Michael Andreano, had an affair with a married woman - see newarkarchbishop dot com - yet Myers keeps the man by his side. Myers has ruled it is okay for priests to have affairs with married women so long as they are consensual affairs but is against gay marriage because it is "immoral". When a Catholic bishop without skeletons in his closet speaks out against gay marriage I will listen to his point, but as they seem to be in such scarce supply...

James M. Essig

As a Catholic, I find myself often pondering the most profound mystery for which we Catholics on Earth are aware of, and that is the very existential and ontological attributes of GOD, in particular that of the HOLY TRINITY.

We in the Western Tradition of Theology and Philosophy have a history of categorizing GOD in terms of Platonic or Ancient Greek ideals, concepts, or forms such as pure absolute infinite being, all-knowing, immutability, perfect and infinite good, and the list goes on and on.

The language of modern psychology has given us new forms of language and associated concepts such as the concept and wordage of personality, interpersonal relationships, intimacy, and the like.

GOD is not just some abstract being that is impersonal anymore than a human being is not simply something, but rather is someone. Since the primary distinction between the Three Divine Persons is the fact that they are distinct persons, we can conclude that GOD also has the perfection of personhood, personality, etc., to the ultimate and absolutely unfathomable infinite extent.

Commensurate with this infinite perfection of personality is the ability for interpersonal relation and interpersonal intimacy among the Three Divine Persons. Thus one aspect of the Holy Trinity is to be a Life of Pure Infinite Interpersonal Relationship or Intimacy.

I make these comments especially to all of those who have found themselves trapped in dysfunctional and hurtful relationships who are looking for something much greater, something that only GOD can provide.

Yes, the Church and Sacred Scripture teach that homosexual acts are wrong as well as fornication, adultery, and the like, however GOD is looking to share with you his nature in a form that is pure, sinless, infinitely intimate and loving in manner. God loves you with a love beyond all imagining. I urge all of the readership of this posting who find themselves in human relationships that are contrary to the teachings and traditions of the Catholic Church as well as those of Sacred Scripture to seek all the more this love of GOD and break off these destructive relationships. Our Lady, The Immaculate Conception and Mother of God and your spititual mother is also waiting to embrace you with a tenderness beyond your comprehension as only a Mother can who has had the existential and ontological nature of Her motherhood exaulted above all other creatures to the throne of Her Divine Son by the power of God. Mary is truely the Queen of Heaven, Queen of All Saints, Queen of All Angels, Queen of the Cosmos.

GOD loves you with an interpersonal warmth and intimacy that we simply cannot comprehend on Earth. To paraphrase the Holy Bible, "GOD knew you before he formed you in the womb."

I can well imagine that since GOD is inexpressibly exulted beyond all that we can comprehend and define, that the mystery of the HOLY TRINITY is just one of an infinite number of mysteries concerning the existential and ontological nature of GOD that we will have access to in the depths of all Eternity in the next life.

Many years ago, as I was having some personal trials and difficulties, my sister Mary who is a devout Christian would console me with the words, “Jim, this life is just a stepping stone in eternity!”

God Bless;



If homosexuals are damned to Dante's Hell, they will have plenty of popes,bishops, and cardinals to keep them company.


Even if that were true, and it may well be, will that make them feel better in hell?

I don't think it will.




If homosexuals are damned to Dante's Hell, they will have plenty of popes,bishops, and cardinals to keep them company.

Neil Alexander

If I'm sent to hell, as long as I'm with my soulmate It will be heaven to me. Love is all that matters not some doctrine or fake words. Marriage preceded the church and it will live after a new religion has taken over.

Love is love, and all the people that are against love truly belong in hell, not the opposite

Neil - stop the drama - Our love is with God first and the salvation of our eternal souls. Think outside the lust of homosexuality because one sex can not love another as God planed it. You were created because plan it - you are special - But believe the One True Faith and you will see the TRUTH


If I'm sent to hell, as long as I'm with my soulmate It will be heaven to me.

I think I'm going to puke.

Robin, I wonder if your post is for real. Nevertheless, here is another belated response.

YAY!!!!! See I told you guys - we're here - open the doors and welcome us!

The doors of the Church are always open to sinners (we are all sinners). But, don't count on the Church condoning homosexual behavior or performing "sacramental" marriages for homosexuals. It is the same church which took on, and changed, the Roman empire and Greek civilization. I doubt the Church will crumble when confronted by a wacky state legislature and some obnoxious homos.

...are you aware that many dioceses (by Law)must recognize domestic partnership benefits for employees living together?

I am aware of the law. Compliance with the law does not violate Catholic teaching. The law can just as readily be used to benefit a person who is caring for an ill friend or family member. The application of the law is not restricted to people with disordered sexual inclinations.

Finally my two godchildren (surrogate mother)whose parents ARE two men and who have been BAPTIZED in the church can hold their heads high and say YES to their classmates at their California Catholic school - their dads are married!

I hope their fellow students are compassionate and understanding. Those two kids need all the support they can get -- coming from a background like that.

This site is monitored by someone in ORANGE COUNTY...

I am glad that you monitor this site. Maybe you will learn something.

(just checking) again Ijust needed to say thank you for your wonderful state that recognizes TRUE LOVE!

You better be careful! If you study history, you will find that fascist repression is often inflicted upon chaotic societies in which liberty is abused by those who insist on pushing the boundaries.

Also, while I understand your celebratory mood, I hope there is not "weeping and gnashing of teeth" in the future for any of us.


The true gigantic threat to straight marriage already happened: "No fault" divorce (not a false smokescreen)

For a Catholic there is only one kind of marriage -- sacramental marriage between a man and a woman. You have already fallen into the trap of accepting the REDEFINITION of marriage from what it has meant throughout all of recorded history -- marriage between a man and a woman. As far as I am concerned, there is no such thing as gay marriage.

If you fight against it, do it in love, not hate. People like Atlanta Catholic and others lack love, proven by their shooting me down on another blog (Matt.7:1-2) without knowing my position on other issues. Such are decievers.

The liberal/left-wing tactic of labeling the opposition of being hateful is wearing thin. You are like the boy who cried wolf too often.

The Catholic Church can't be trusted to maintain it's stance on much of anything, already teaching Evolution( how weird is that??!!)

What are you talking about? "Creationism" was never a doctrine/dogma of the Catholic Faith. You must have us confused with Evangelicals.

You'd all do well to quote Scripture & Early Church Fathers on Rom Cath blog, in place of social clicks and personality grudges

Many of us do quote Scripture and Church Fathers. Browse the archives.

Rude comments such as by Patrick turn people from Christianity.

To see someone write that he is willing to go to Hell for the sake of homosexual behavior does make me nauseous. If you think that is a rude comment...well...tough! I believe telling it like it is.


I'm not arguing with you on the definition of marriage. I'm saying that it's illogical to harp against gay marriage, IN PLACE OF harping against "no fault" divorce or polygamy, which grossly violate Christianity,and in FAR GREATER NUMBER.

Actually, it isn't a sin for a Catholic to seek a civil divorce if there is a good reason for it. For instance, if a woman is married to a man who beats her, she can seek a civil divorce to protect herself from harm. There are many other reasons why a Catholic may live separately from his or her spouse after going through a civil divorce.

The problems start when the Catholic, who has a civil divorce, tries to remarry. The Church regards that person as still married (sacramentally) unless an anullment has been granted by a tribunal. And, as far as I know, polygamy is still illegal.

So, your attempt to draw a moral equivalence between the existence of divorce and phony homosexual "marriage" falls short.

Don't assume all crys of hate are cheap tactics. I intend my cry here to match Pres. elect Obama's, word for word. He's not gay,nor has any known gay relatives.

Whatever...I don't pay too much attention to what Obama has to say.

Reading what the early Church believed (before Augustine)you'll find they were 100% Creationist

Most Catholics until the beginning of the last century probably tended to believe a literal interpretation of the creation story in Genesis. But, THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT DOCTRINE OR DOGMA. Creationism was never an official dogma or doctrinal teaching of the Catholic Church. Many Catholics before Augustine probably believed in sea monsters. THAT WAS JUST THEIR OPINION.

Let's not regulate Scripture & Early Church Father quotes to the archives

I don't see you quoting them.

I'm aware that their suicide rate is a dozen times higher than straights.

Yeah, let's pretend they are married to one another! That will fix it!

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