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Wednesday, December 10, 2008

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Compline

So let's see...when Catholic families have 12 kids rather than adopt, that's considered pro-life and a wonderful thing. When a gay man decides to father children rather than adopt, that's selfish. Got it. It's the actor, not the action, that is the deciding factor.

James Rich

I certainly read the word "I" a lot in this snippet of article.

Catholics, in my opinion, have not found an effective argument/voice trumping the so-called compassionate-emotional component in favor of this kind of stuff. We see Ricky's response, his reference to God, and come to the conclusion that although his actions are wrong -- according to the Catholic Faith -- it is somehow difficult to blame him. I mean, these are the same things I feel with my 6-month-old baby girl. Just read the person making the first comment--he's completely ignorant of Catholic teaching, and actually feels smug self-assurance when he should feel a lot more embarrassment.

The emotional impact of this story is totally in favor of Ricky Martin. I have always found these kinds of issues, which rely on such appeals to faux compassion and emotion, to be the toughest ones to handle with my non-Catholic family and friends.

James Rich

... he certainly failed to mention the need for a mother in the babies' lives. I guess that part of the story is irrelevant for these children, at least as far as Ricky is concerned.

Eileen

I'd be the momma for those babies, and I'd love to give Ricky a few more. What a hottie!

ATHELSTAN

Ricky Martin's children have a "mother". Learn to live with it.

Better that they have Ricky and "mom" than nothing. Holy Church with its super, holier-than-thou whitened sepulchres wringing their hands would like to deprive the Ricky Martin's of this world and "mom" from rearing children. Those children need the love and the attention Ricky so obviously showers on them.

Atlanta Catholic

Athelstan, Could you please ask Ricky to adopt you too? You always sound like you have never had any obvious love showered on you either.

Atlanta Catholic

The reason that Ricky felt comfortable to join this latest societal trend is the failure to communicate the revealed truths of the Catholic Church. There is a universal breakdown in morals and values. Everyone has their own personal or affective aspect of faith to the detriment of the dogmatic or cognitive aspect. This is why it is such a blessing to have holy and courageous Bishops who guide the pastors who guide the sheep. On the plus side, God writes straight with crooked lines...The new trend in Hollywood that you also see in Ricky's actions are a desire to "have babies". Having babies used to be taboo for the stars because you no longer fit the glamorous facade. God is faithful and these children who have life only because of God, might be the very ones to lead their parents back to the sacraments. Poor Madonna, She is trying so hard to do everything she can to forget her Catholicism and for all of the wealth, it's not working out for her either. Naming her little daughter Lourdes must have been a choice to have her own daily reminder.

Simple soul

The reason mankind has managed to make such a complicated mess of things is that we have forgotten that children are not a piece of property or a possession They are as my old Irish mother would say a gift from God and what God gives he can take back when He wills.
My older brother and his wife came from large families and wanted a family but for some mysterious reason that was not to be but they trusted in God and have lived lives of love fostering and caring for many children over the years.
Too often in modern times adults are looking to children for their own emotional fulfillment.

Fernando

Athelstan, why not go where someone can appreciate your comments. THis is definitely the wrong website for you. COntrary to your position on homosexuality, everyone instinctively know that a child has a better chance with both parents--no, not Greg and Ken but Greg and Kelly. The only thing that can be said for Mr. Martin is that it is alledged that he was abused as a child while in a young band by one of the assistants in a band called "Menudo," I believe he claims to be Buddhist or some combination thereof.

Patt S.

In all the families I've seen, it has been rare to see a child run straight to Dad for comfort when hurt. Even the most loving of Dads have been ignored, while Mom's arms were welcome. You cannot replace a Mom no matter how you try, a man is still not a "mother", no matter how gay he is.

James Rich

Sounds like Athelstan needs a shower alright...a cold shower.

Sam

Weak post, Loy. This seems like People Magazine stuff.

This must be a slow week for substantive material.

Past week was significant for a number of significant feasts: Immaculate Conception, Saint Juan Diego, Saint Lucia, Our Lady of Loreto, Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe, etc.

Any of those would have been worthy material.

Sam

Weak post, Loy. This seems like People Magazine stuff.

This must be a slow week for substantive material.

Past week was significant for a number of significant feasts: Immaculate Conception, Saint Juan Diego, Saint Lucia, Our Lady of Loreto, Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe, etc.

Any of those would have been worthy material.

Debbie

Every child is a gift of God, and a blessing. Care to square your judgmental attitude about Mr. Martin with Catholic faith about the preciousness of each child? Heaven will now have two more beautiful souls in it because Mr. Martin decided to be a co-creator with God.

Loyolalaw98

Debbie,

I don't have to "square" my absolute knowledge of the wrongful/sinful nature of Ricky Martin's actions with the "preciousness" of his children.

THE TWO HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH EACH OTHER.

You are allowing your EMOTION to cloud your REASON.

Ricky Martin's use of a surrogate, who was artificially inseminated, to "have" children is wrong. From the standpoint of catholic moral theology there is no "but the kids are so cute..."

To Judge Sam - I think that the issues of surrogate parenthood and artificial insemination are worthy of mention at this site. I was happy to see that the Archbishop in Honduras also condemned Martin's actions.

Who knows how many dolts in our society might be swayed morally by this celebrity?

Reggie

"You are allowing your EMOTION to cloud your REASON."

I have noticed that this comment comes up more than once in response to what people say on this site.

What do you want? We are not all Philosophers here to argue a point, but everyday people discussing ideas; and emotions are always a factor when dealing with the public.

Reggie

Enzo Bar. de'Selvaggi

I stopped reading everything when I read the word, "Corageous Bishops".

Like the "Cardinal Archbishop" of Milan?

That effeminate buffoon who says more mosques should be built?

Or maybe the "Archbishop" of Los Angeles who builds an altar to the New American Religion, rides in gay parades, gives the invocation at the Democrat convention's opening, and says that "kneeling" is unworthy of Americans?

NOTHING will change until the Curia is dissolved, and the prelature is purged of these Arch-Heretics who DARE to wear berrettas and pectoral crosses when they pose for pictures, and go out in bermudas during their "private" time.

God save the Church from her 'princes'!

Let us pray for a Pope who as much King as He is Priest!

AMEN

ATHELSTAN

I believe someone has written, "This seems like People Magazine stuff. This must be a slow week for substantive material."

"Mad Magazine" is more like it.

Bernie

Athelstan is one of the hate the Catholic Faith group. This person want a burger king church have it there way. No concept on TRUTH or The ONE TRUE FAITH. Just want to get ATTENTION. But what can you expect when we have our own bishops saying sorry to homosexuals. Atheistan is a TRUE KOOL-AID DRINKER. Drink up for soon you will see the bottomless pit.

Anthony

Those poor babies.

Simple soul

Yes poor babies indeed Children deserve to come into this world because a man and a woman of faith share the vocation of marriage and are gifted with a child. That is the natural, beautiful way God planned it . We are the fools who mess it all up and a culture that has made a false God of sex and constantly tells us it is a recreational right which we must indulge in or otherwise we will be repressed miserable unhappy souls tends to cause a great deal of confusion.
Mr Martin is one of the confued ones!

ATHELSTAN

A "Burger King" church? Not on your life. I hate burgers, but I do like the idea of a Salad Bar Church. Mix and match or cafeteria Christianity. It is exactly what most Catholics do prefer whether the old guard in Rome or elsewhere like it or not. It is the Church's only future.

Otherwise, all that's left is an army of reactionaries and their lackeys--the unthinking pay,pray, and obey "true believers" who think liturgical reform is fingering their beads ad versus populum. They tenaciously cling to their childhood memories of "Roman Catholicism". Forever trying to put lipstick it to bring it back into vogue. Actually, it's really a dying road show worldwide.
The pope knows it is dying too. When he's gone from the scene his successor will undoubtedly reverse his motu proprio, and the other quaint prelatical fashion statements Pope Benny and his right-wing followers so slavishly follow.

His most memorable achievement may be his central role in Vatican theater. Of course, it has always provided great theater. Not always the best art, but wonderful stage productions. This is its true legacy and this pope wants to make it his lasting contribution. His greatest works are in writing and were completed years ago as a cardinal.
With the Church breaking up into innumerable factions over every subject imaginable, a worsening civil war over liturgy, the rising prominence of schismatic groups,especially a new Catholicism built around lady priests and bishops, and the pope's failure to placate the sede vacantists and SSPX folks, he might just decide to cash in his chips and retire to a Benedictine monastery. Not a bad idea actually.
The bishops in England and Wales won't be the only body of bishops glad to see the old boy take off.

Bernie

That right your a obama I want to kill babies kool aid drinker and of course you don't like burgers the left hollywood type only eat salads so that the poor little animals do not suffer like the poor little human babies. GET REAL THE ONE TRUE CHURCH WILL NEVER FAIL.

Mary and Christ's Mass or in your case happy winter day.

James M. Essig

An Advent Prayer for all Intelligent Bodily Extraterrestrial Peoples.

Dear GOD THE FATHER, THE THIRD PERSON OF THE HOLY TRINITY, YOU are typically viewed as the CREATOR of the cosmos and every creature including all rational creatures, spiritual, spiritual and physical such as man and any intelligent bodily extraterrestrials YOU have created, as well as purely physical creatures.
I ask that YOU grant Peace, Joy, Hope, Love, Warm Interpersonal Interrelationships, Familial Joy, Continued, Moral Spiritual, Intellectual, Emotional, Social, Psychological, and Scientific and Technological Development for all Intelligent Extraterrestrial Civilizations and all ET Persons living within these civilizations.

I ask that all Intelligent Extraterrestrial Persons or ETI Persons who will die or pass on to the next life are blessed with the Beatific Vision to the extent that YOU have ordained such for them while being mindful that no creature can merit the Beatific Vision and an Intellectual Comprehension of the HOLY TRINITY as ONE GOD in THREE PERESONS on his, her or its own.

To the Extent that the Beatific Vision and the comprehension of the HOLY TRIUNE NATURE of GOD is not an option for these deceased or soon the be deceased ETI persons, may they nevertheless partake in an afterlife full of ever abundant and ever growing natural progress, happiness, joy, peace, love, and continued Moral Spiritual, Intellectual, Emotional, Social, and Psychological progress and development, and in any ways you permit or see fit, scientific and technological progress also.

If YOU and YOUR DIVINE PROVIDENCE have ordained that such ETI Creatures should not have open to them, the possibility of the Beatific Vision and the immediate sight and grace open to being able see GOD as TRIUNE AND ONE, grant such ETI Persons the life of permanent supernatural life, and to the extent that YOU see fit, continued progress in the Moral Life of Supernatural Grace unimpeded by the scandals, conflicts, wars, crimes, and morally evil acts of will, that can occur while these ETI Persons exist in a bodily state while in the physical cosmos.

I ask that YOU instill in the Hearts, Souls, Minds, Intellects, and Wills of all ETI Persons and Civilizations a respect for the Sanctity of all ETI bodily life forms from the moment of conception until natural death and beyond, and to the extent that any ETI Persons and Their civilizations are aware of the presence of we Human Persons in this World, a respect for all Human Life from the Moment of Conception until Natural Death.

For all ETI persons and/or Civilizations that may be starting out in the life of natural innocence or guided by the natural powers of reason and will, and for those in possession of Supernatural Life or the Life of Grace, which can be merited by no creature, may they not fall to the dark corruption that We Humans have fallen into as a result of pride, anger, jealousy, and the dark presence and temptations of the EVIL ONE and HIS Minions.

To the extent that YOU see fit, may these ETI civilizations in an initial state of innocnece not harness the powers of science, technology, intellect, or mathematics in such a way that a proliferation of nuclear weapons occurs in their cultures as well as a proliferation of nuclear physics and sub-nuclear physics experiments for war-like experiments occurs in their cultures as it has for We Humans. For ultimately, the insatiable lust for power over nature and others and the will to dominate nature and others knows no bounds, especially as it seems to be the case for us Human Persons and Human Societies as we go down the dark road of further nuclear weapons research and development, and the applications of nuclear, sub-nuclear, and quantum physics for war-like purposes that ultimately knows no limits in its power to destroy and tear down.

I pray for the eternal rest, happiness, peace, joy, and freedom from any form of pain or suffering for all ETI persons who will die a violent and/or unsuspected death during these few days before Christmas either by accidents, violent crime, suicide, painful illness or acts of armed conflict.

ETERNAL FATHER. I beseech YOU to grant all ETI Persons the favors mentioned above to the extent that YOU permit in YOUR DIVINE and MYSTERIOUS ECONOMY and to show forth YOUR KINDNESS. LOVE and MERCY to all such ETI Persons.

JESUS CHRIST, GOD THE SON, THE SECOND PERSON OF THE HOLY TRINITY, TRUE GOD AND TRUE HUMAN, THE MOST POWERFUL MALE IN THE UNIVERSE BY VIRTUE OF YOUR TRULY HUMAN NATURE JOINED to YOUR DIVINITY, I ask of YOU the same favors for the ETI Persons and Their civilizations.

HOLY SPIRIT, THE THIRD DIVINE PERSON, I ask of YOU the same favors for the ETI Persons and Their civilizations.

The Blessed Virgin Mary, I ask of You the same favors for all living and deceased ETI Persons and Their civilizations. YOU are the Queen of the Universe as You have stated in many of Your Church Approved apparitions. You are the singularly unique Mother of God. YOU have been exulted by GOD in GRACE far above all other Creatures to the GLORY AND LIKENESS OF YOUR RESSURECTED DIVINE SON.

HOLY TINITY, THE DIVINE GODHEAD, THRICE HOLY, AS ULTIMATE FATHER AND SUSTAINER OF ALL BY YOUR ALL POWERFUL RIGHT ARM, I ask the same favors for all ETI Persons and civilizations, especially those most dejected in this life or in a state of purgative atonement in the next life and who must make purgative atonement for any bad choices made during life in the physical world.

GOD THE FATHER, GOD THE SON, HOLY SPIRIT, HOLY TRINITY AND GODHEAD THRICE HOLY, AND THE BLESSED VIRGIN MAY, MOTHER OF GOD, I ask of you all of the above favors for our ETI brothers and sisters regardless of whether their bodies are of a hydrocarbon DNA based humanoid type, a hydrocarbon based non-humanoids type, an ethereal or tenuous form or of any other form that they have been given as a gift of YOUR love.

GOD BLESS from a Conservative Pro-life, Human Catholic Man who often cannot seem to get beyond his sins of jealousy, anger, pride, and avarice.

James Rich

Uh, James, I know it's been a long Xmas season and all, but The Father is not the Third Person of the Trinity but the First. You see, when you do the sign of the Cross, you generally say, "In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit."

We ETI would appreciate your correction of that.

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