My Photo

Insight Scoop

Catholic World News Top Headlines (

The Curt Jester


Poor Box

Render Unto Us

Tip Jar
Blog powered by Typepad

« Hostility of the Perverse | Main | Saint of the Gallows »

Tuesday, June 09, 2009


Central Valley

Good article but it only scratches the surface of the liturgical abuse found in the diocese of Fresno. Look at the bishop and the director of liturgy. The current director of liturgy is Fr. Mike Listiri (google search Listiri). In many churches in the Fresno diocese the catechists are sent to the annual three days of darkness for instruction in Los Angeles. In the years I have been in the Fresno diocese, every year after Mahony's congress you could see little by little various cancers spreading into the liturgy. The diocese has several very orthodox priests but they are somewhat persecuted by Steinbock and his inner circle. The Latin Mass communities in the diocese face outright persecution from Steinbock and the bois. Look at Steinbocks recent recommendations for Monsignors, not an orthodox among them.

Virgo Potens

Dude, with all due respect, just go to the Latin Mass! The 3:30 time slot is a pain, but I've found it forces me to plan my whole Sunday around Mass. Which is kind of the point! The music there is good, the sermons are good, and there's a real sense of fellowship among the community.

M. L. Hearing

"Creeping Protestantism"--now that is an apt phrase. Here in the Diocese of Tulsa (Oklahoma) our Bishop seems to be doing much to slow and, in some instances, even reverse the creep. Except for the music. I refuse to sing a lot of the maudlin, saccharine, theologically questionable, Protestant-sounding hymns that are inflicted on us at Mass.

M. L. Hearing


It's not just in Fresno! We are all feeling the seems lately the confusion is reaching a fevered pitch....we are Catholic, yet I am witnessing numerous practices, beliefs, it is disturbing to say the least. It appears most of the "religious" are more interested in re-inventing the wheel....with horrible consequences I'm afraid. I find myself thinking alot lately "didn't that used to be considered a heresy?" Heaven forbid if the word heresy should ever be used now....everything is good and right and loving if they say it is. I am becoming very discouraged. God Bless you all!


Hmm kids leaving i have see nthat in Toronto. I think it is a massively bad idea.
Then at the Our father the kids all are called onto the altar and hold hands with the priest :(
Oh what about breaking the bread at the consecration and not Agnus dei.


BEST HOPE is to pray that the Holy Father selects orthodox, courageous and strongminded successors to certain U.S. Bishops when they reach the mandatory retirement age of 75, including Roger Mahony who is 73. Also, at age 72 are the following bishops: Brown (Orange County); Niederauer (San Fran); Rigali (Philly); and George of Chicago.

With guidance from the Holy Spirit, in 3 or 4 years the Catholic Church in the U.S. might begin a wonderful rebirth.

Trust in Him and fear not

The Year of the Priest is beginning Let us hope every priest who is wavering or simply burnt out gets the opportunity to go to Ars the Parish of Saint John Vianney for the special retreat being held for priests and then on to Lourdes on pilgrimage to renew their spirits.


Interesting conversation. A note though - the dismissal of children for the Liturgy of the Word was actually promulgated by the US Bishops with the use of the Lectionary of Masses with Children. In the instruction part of the book it is clearly stated that children are invited to leave the assembly - a "presider" of the Liturgy of the Word is to come forward and receive a blessing by the ordained presider - they are to take the children's Lectionary and process with the children to another space where the readings, psalm and gospel are proclaimed. The blessing of the lay presider is actually printed in the instruction in the Lectionary for Masses with Children (LMC). Yes, it is true that the lectionary is being revised but I was told by the BCL to continue using the current LMC until a new text has rognitio from Rome. Again, my understanding is that the text of the readings will change from the Contemporary English Version to an authentic adaptation of Revised NAB suitable for children who have NOT made their first communion. I am not aware of any changes being done to the instructions for use of the revised LMC I am NOT criticizing or promoting I simply wanted to give some facts. Thank You


Sorry for my bad spelling of Latin - - I was trying to say recognitio (approval from Rome) - another side bar - the approval will NOT come until after the Revised Roman Missal Is approved. Although I need to note, US Catholic publishers are NOT allowed to print any more of the Lectionary for Masses with Children in use today. This presents a problem when customers ask for the LMC, publishers try and explain why they cannot print but are stymied by the long wait for approval. Materials used by the lay presiders of the word are usually coming from reputable Catholic publishers (i.e. LTP in Chicago that must go through a review by an appointed cleric) Although it may seem out of place in the sacred liturgy (the dismissal of children) many parents AND children appreciate hearing and understanding the scriptures when preached with age-appropriate words - also, please note that the children are to return to the assembly during the Preparation of Gifts so that the children are present for the Eucharistic Prayer and the witnessing of their families receiving the precious body and blood of Christ.


My experience with the Childrens Liturgy of the Word was that the whole process was very disruptive, the children were running up to the altar, they were running on the altar, everyone would wait while 40-50 children lined up, which is no small feat with little ones, then they would all leave for 15 minutes, then the whole process would start over when they returned...waving the pictures they colored, getting resettled in their seats, etc. etc... I could never understand what could possibly be learned by these children in the 15-20 minutes they were gone. I taught religious ed to 10 year olds for 5 years, so I know what it takes to get kids focused and in the "learning" mood. I thought it would have been best to let the children stay, and let mom and dad handle the explaining of the gospel in kid terms after Mass, as a family if the children were old enough to understand. I realize their motives behind dismissing the children, but have to disagree with the wisdom of it. Mass just becomes one more chaotic, busy, loud social gathering devoid of reverence and focus on the Eucharistic Presence. Holiness is lost.


I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed the hand holding and mimicing the priest. My family and I close our eyes and put our own hands together (not holding hands) in traditional prayer. Maybe our example will reverse the tide.

Joe of St. Therese

Here in Los Angeles, that's a common practice.

Deacon Jeff Drzycimski

Just to distinguish and clarify, deacons are not laypersons. They are ordained clerics. They do have the power and authority to bless. They do not, however, as you rightly point out, have any authority to say a Mass (especially the Collect, the Eucharistic Prayer, The Prayer after Communion, the Benediction, etc.). The Sacramentary is very clear about "who says what."

Tracy Curran

I am very interested to read that several people posting comments suggesting that piety is necessarily characterised by quiet and stillness, and that noise, boisterousness, and other 'normal' expressions of joy are nececessarily irreverent. Sometimes children--and adults--who are quiet are just bored.

My previous parish priest (who could in no way be described as progressive/liberal) mentioned to me that he was beyond minding what children did when they were at mass; he was just thankful that they were THERE, and not out worshipping secular 'gods' like shopping or football on a Sunday morning.

On another point--what is the objection to holding hands during the 'Our Father?' It seems like a very natural thing for my young family to do, as we often hold hands when we say the Our Father at the children's bedtime (it helps them to not be distracted).

David Hegedusich


Regarding your question about holding hands during the Our Father...there has been much debate about that topic, and reasonable points made both for and against the practice. I've created a post on my blog at that sums up the matter rather concisely.

carol mcl

The hand-holding: I don't understand why it's still done in the Fresno Diocese, considering that about two years ago or more, the Bishop sent out letters to all parishes saying what was proper 7 not for Mass, and one was NO HAND HOLDING during the Our Father! Sometimes family groups do it, and that to me seems appropriate. One parish in Fresno: I saw the priest just SIT during distribution of holy Eucharist: the lay people did it all. VERY sad. :(

The comments to this entry are closed.

Pope Benedict XVI Homilies & Statements

Codex of Catholic Blogs

Orthodox Blogs

Blogs From People We Wish Were Catholic